Apologies if I get some acronyms, etc wrong in this. My husband has been a reservist w/ the Windsor Regiment, 13 years total. He put in last year for an OT/CT to get into Military Mapping. We understand that he will likely be going to Algonquin College this fall, but we haven't received an official offer yet. I *hate* not having a plan in place. I've been reading up on the relocation process, but the language is really confusing to me. Will we likely qualify for relocation assistance? How does the process work? He has a friend who has already completed a year at Algonquin, but this buddy didn't have a family to move with him, much less a year-old preemie... :stars:
How does relocation work for OT/CT?
- Thread starter acooper
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Ok I do not have all the facts but here goes:
If your hubby goes into Geo Tech he will not be qualified, therefore you are not entitled to a full-cost move until he is qualified, BUT...seeing as his program will likely be more than a year, the Base-Training List Manager who "owns" him may authorize a restricted move with dependants on location. In that case, you get to move there but get none of the goodies of the IRP relocation, i.e. they repay your costs (selling a house, breaking a lease, etc...) but you do not get to put a cent in your pockets.
I am in the same situation, as I am awaiting a CT/OT any day now and will be posted on location awaiting training with my family, including an 18 months old, so I hear you
Read this topic as well:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/93484.0.html
Cheers!
If your hubby goes into Geo Tech he will not be qualified, therefore you are not entitled to a full-cost move until he is qualified, BUT...seeing as his program will likely be more than a year, the Base-Training List Manager who "owns" him may authorize a restricted move with dependants on location. In that case, you get to move there but get none of the goodies of the IRP relocation, i.e. they repay your costs (selling a house, breaking a lease, etc...) but you do not get to put a cent in your pockets.
I am in the same situation, as I am awaiting a CT/OT any day now and will be posted on location awaiting training with my family, including an 18 months old, so I hear you
Read this topic as well:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/93484.0.html
Cheers!
Pusser
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TimBit is almost right. There is no hard and fast rule as to who gets their family moved and who does not. It is entirely up to the Managing Authority who controls the training (and the budget) to decide whether someone is "posted" (i.e. with full move benefits) or "attach posted" (i.e. few, if any move benefits). Typically (but by NO means universally), being sent on training for at least a year will result in a posting, which should normally include relocation entitlements.
Now, I wish to correct a common misconception that moving under the Integrated Relocation Program (IRP) entitles individuals to more benefits than being moved otherwise. Benefits and entitlements are defined by regulation (specifically in this case, the Compensation and Benefits Instructions - CBI). The IRP is simply a program whereby the benefits and entitlements contained in the CBI are delivered by a contractor vice DND/CF staff in a Base Orderly Room (BOR). Although there are a few discrepencies between the benefits of an IRP move and one administered by the BOR, they are minor and do not involve large sums of money. In other words, the only real difference between an IRP move and a BOR move is who does the paperwork.
The differences that do exist are known and there is move afoot to bring everything into line so that in the future, there will no differences between the types of move.
Now, I wish to correct a common misconception that moving under the Integrated Relocation Program (IRP) entitles individuals to more benefits than being moved otherwise. Benefits and entitlements are defined by regulation (specifically in this case, the Compensation and Benefits Instructions - CBI). The IRP is simply a program whereby the benefits and entitlements contained in the CBI are delivered by a contractor vice DND/CF staff in a Base Orderly Room (BOR). Although there are a few discrepencies between the benefits of an IRP move and one administered by the BOR, they are minor and do not involve large sums of money. In other words, the only real difference between an IRP move and a BOR move is who does the paperwork.
The differences that do exist are known and there is move afoot to bring everything into line so that in the future, there will no differences between the types of move.
Thanks Pusser, very enlightening. As I said, I am myself going to undergo a BOR move on location awaiting training and have been collecting bits and pieces of info here and there.
As I understand the largest difference is the posting allowance, which is understandably absent in the case of a BOR move.
As I understand the largest difference is the posting allowance, which is understandably absent in the case of a BOR move.
Pusser
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Entitlement to Posting Allowance is based on whether or not someone has "Career Status" and is paid regardless of whether it is an IRP or BOR move. Although there are several criteria in determining career status, for the most part, anyone with three years of service is entitled to a Posting Allowance on posting. There are cases where people on BOR moves are entitled to Posting Allowance and cases where people on IRP moves are not. In other words, Posting Allowance and type of move are mutually exclusive.
For the most part, BOR moves occur early in a member's career and IPR moves occur later. This is where I think most of the confusion/misconception arises. The majority of people moving under IRP will be entitled to a Posting Allowance, while the majority of people on BOR moves will not be. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule....
The biggest difference I've noticed is for the Movement Grant (which is often confused with Posting Allowance, but is a separate benefit). Under the IRP, the Movement Grant is $650, but for a BOR move it is either $260 or $845 (depending on the weight of the F&E moved). This anomaly is recognized and is one of the things that the powers that be are trying to fix.
For the most part, BOR moves occur early in a member's career and IPR moves occur later. This is where I think most of the confusion/misconception arises. The majority of people moving under IRP will be entitled to a Posting Allowance, while the majority of people on BOR moves will not be. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule....
The biggest difference I've noticed is for the Movement Grant (which is often confused with Posting Allowance, but is a separate benefit). Under the IRP, the Movement Grant is $650, but for a BOR move it is either $260 or $845 (depending on the weight of the F&E moved). This anomaly is recognized and is one of the things that the powers that be are trying to fix.
Eye In The Sky
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Just a bit more info re: posting allowance.
On the NCM side of the house, IIRC to qualify for a PA, you have to have either 3 years service OR have completed QL3 in your MOC, whichever comes first. That is the Career Status Pusser mentioned earlier.
I can't recall what it said (DCBA Aide Memoire) for Officers.
On the NCM side of the house, IIRC to qualify for a PA, you have to have either 3 years service OR have completed QL3 in your MOC, whichever comes first. That is the Career Status Pusser mentioned earlier.
I can't recall what it said (DCBA Aide Memoire) for Officers.
Pusser
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Eye In The Sky said:
Generally, career status occurs at the point where one is actually employable (i.e. finished training). This can happen before or after three years of service, depending on occupation and could be effected by any qualifications the individual held before enrollment. However, everybody gets it at three years, so that's usually the first question I ask. If they don't have three years service, then you have to dig a little deeper.
Hmm...now that's interesting Pusser. I will be going in with what I reckon to be +/- less 3 yrs of class B and class A divided by 4 time. I'm OT'ing to a RegF only trade but am not qualified in my current PRes trade. Are you saying that if I do indeed have more than 3 yrs cumulative recognized service I could be entitled to the Posting Allowance?
Thanks in advance for the reply!
Thanks in advance for the reply!
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3.4.03 Posting allowance
Regular Force members who have attained career status are entitled to a posting allowance when:
•
posted from one place of duty to another;
•
the provisions of art 1.1.03 apply; and
•
the limitations outlined in this article do not apply.
Career status is attained for CF members:
•
of the Regular Force, on the earliest occurring date of:
•
completion of Military Occupation Code (MOC) qualification for Officers or Qualification Level (QL) 3 for Non Commissioned Members (NCMs), or
•
three years of completed service from the date of enrolment.
•
re-enrolling in or transferring from the Reserve to the Regular Force:
•
on re-enrollment or transfer if joining in an MOC for which the applicant is already qualified,
•
on completion of Regular Force MOC qualification, or
•
once they have completed three years of service including previous full time service.
The posting allowance consists of two elements as follows at the COS date:
•
Basic Allowance Element (BAE) - is equal to one half of the monthly rate of pay of CF members, and
•
Dependant Allowance Element (DAE) - is equal to one half of the monthly rate of pay of CF members whose dependants are relocated at public expense and is added to the BAE.
Limitations. Posting allowance is not payable:
•
for local moves;
•
in cases of posting cancellation;
•
on release, on posting as a result of release, or posting to a location for release, or for moving to an intended place of residence (IPR) on or after release unless returning from outside Canada as per art 12.9.01 or an isolated post as per art 11.4.03;
•
in instances where CF members do not move but receive SCA and commute to their residence on a regular basis;
•
to CF members who are posted and continue to reside within the geographic boundaries of the former place of duty or at the authorized location for the former place of duty;
•
in all other cases where a posting occurs and the posting does not result in CF members actually moving;
•
when the posting is to the first place of duty where CF members will be employed after re-enrolment or transfer to the Regular Force;
•
on attached posting;
•
for any Reserve Force members; and
•
to foreign exchange personnel who are posted while serving with the CF.
Service Couple (SC) Each member of the service couple is entitled to the BAE at their applicable rate of pay. The DAE portion shall be paid at the higher rate of pay. Prior to the first co-location, each CF member with dependant(s) is entitled to BAE and DAE.
Certification. Eligibility to posting allowance shall be certified by the Orderly Room on the pay statement which reflects the rate of pay on the COS date.
Regular Force members who have attained career status are entitled to a posting allowance when:
•
posted from one place of duty to another;
•
the provisions of art 1.1.03 apply; and
•
the limitations outlined in this article do not apply.
Career status is attained for CF members:
•
of the Regular Force, on the earliest occurring date of:
•
completion of Military Occupation Code (MOC) qualification for Officers or Qualification Level (QL) 3 for Non Commissioned Members (NCMs), or
•
three years of completed service from the date of enrolment.
•
re-enrolling in or transferring from the Reserve to the Regular Force:
•
on re-enrollment or transfer if joining in an MOC for which the applicant is already qualified,
•
on completion of Regular Force MOC qualification, or
•
once they have completed three years of service including previous full time service.
The posting allowance consists of two elements as follows at the COS date:
•
Basic Allowance Element (BAE) - is equal to one half of the monthly rate of pay of CF members, and
•
Dependant Allowance Element (DAE) - is equal to one half of the monthly rate of pay of CF members whose dependants are relocated at public expense and is added to the BAE.
Limitations. Posting allowance is not payable:
•
for local moves;
•
in cases of posting cancellation;
•
on release, on posting as a result of release, or posting to a location for release, or for moving to an intended place of residence (IPR) on or after release unless returning from outside Canada as per art 12.9.01 or an isolated post as per art 11.4.03;
•
in instances where CF members do not move but receive SCA and commute to their residence on a regular basis;
•
to CF members who are posted and continue to reside within the geographic boundaries of the former place of duty or at the authorized location for the former place of duty;
•
in all other cases where a posting occurs and the posting does not result in CF members actually moving;
•
when the posting is to the first place of duty where CF members will be employed after re-enrolment or transfer to the Regular Force;
•
on attached posting;
•
for any Reserve Force members; and
•
to foreign exchange personnel who are posted while serving with the CF.
Service Couple (SC) Each member of the service couple is entitled to the BAE at their applicable rate of pay. The DAE portion shall be paid at the higher rate of pay. Prior to the first co-location, each CF member with dependant(s) is entitled to BAE and DAE.
Certification. Eligibility to posting allowance shall be certified by the Orderly Room on the pay statement which reflects the rate of pay on the COS date.
Eye In The Sky
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When I CTd, I was at "career status" (WELL over 3 years PFTPS and QL3 qual'd) and didn't receive a PA, as it was my first Reg Force posting. Can't recall if the ref for that was the IRP regulations or DCBA Aide Memoire, or which CBI it was taken from. But looking at what dapaterson posted above, either that has changed OR my IRP rep screwed me.
Eye In The Sky
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I should have read more carefully:
That would have been the case for me. Kind of contradicts the early part though *scratches head*.
Still, nothing to complain about though. The benefits of CTing far outweigh the lack of a PA on my 1st posting, and I wouldn't be in the MOC I am and doing what I am doing without that initial step.
That would have been the case for me. Kind of contradicts the early part though *scratches head*.
Still, nothing to complain about though. The benefits of CTing far outweigh the lack of a PA on my 1st posting, and I wouldn't be in the MOC I am and doing what I am doing without that initial step.
Pusser
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TimBit,
It is important to note that Posting Allowance is probably the policy that has undergone the most number of changes ever in the CF. The rules have changed so many times my head still spins everytime I think about it. The short answer is that I can't give you an answer unless I know every detail of your circumstances. Even then, it sometimes seems to depend on the day of the week. Dapaterson's answer (out of the CFIRP Directive) is the best place to start at this point. I would say at first glance though that unless you have at least three years of full-time service (Class A does not count, even at 1/4 time), then you would not be entitled at this point.
It is important to note that Posting Allowance is probably the policy that has undergone the most number of changes ever in the CF. The rules have changed so many times my head still spins everytime I think about it. The short answer is that I can't give you an answer unless I know every detail of your circumstances. Even then, it sometimes seems to depend on the day of the week. Dapaterson's answer (out of the CFIRP Directive) is the best place to start at this point. I would say at first glance though that unless you have at least three years of full-time service (Class A does not count, even at 1/4 time), then you would not be entitled at this point.
Hello all. I am Scott and the husband of the awesome and supportive woman that started this thread.
Anyhow, Pusser it seems that you are really knowledgeable about this and I guess what I want to know from you is how do we (my wife and I) make sure that we get (and I hate that word) as much or all of which we are entitled to.
If all of the clerks or admin staff work as hard as those that have helped me in Windsor have I do not think I will have any problems but lets face it not all take their responsibilities as they should.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Scott Cooper
Anyhow, Pusser it seems that you are really knowledgeable about this and I guess what I want to know from you is how do we (my wife and I) make sure that we get (and I hate that word) as much or all of which we are entitled to.
If all of the clerks or admin staff work as hard as those that have helped me in Windsor have I do not think I will have any problems but lets face it not all take their responsibilities as they should.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Scott Cooper
Pusser
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The best advice I can offer you is to ask the pertinent questions from your Recruiting Centre when you actually enroll. Specifically, you must get a clear answer on whether you will be moved under the CFIRP or not. If you are being moved under the CFIRP, then read the CFIRP Directive here:
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pd/rel-rei/aps-paa-2009/doc/aps-paa-2009-eng.pdf
If you are not being moved under the CFIRP, then you should read the Compensation and Benefits Instructions here:
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pub/cbi-dra/tc-tm-209-eng.asp
All of this may be a bit overwhelming, so if you have any things you want clarified, feel free to PM me with specific questions.
The most important thing to remember, is that the goal of relocation is to ensure that you are no better or worse off than you started. You should not be out of pocket, but at the same time, don't expect to make a profit either. Also remember that at least initially (while you are training), your postings may be "restricted" or "prohibited." This will affect whether your family will be moved with you or not. Unfortunately, only the Management Authority can decide what type of posting you will get. Your best conduit for that information, again, is the Recruiting Centre. At the end of the day, it will get sorted and be especially aware, that you don't necessarily have to do everything at once. If you want to proceed on course and have your family follow later when it is more convenient, that can be arranged.
That's a good piece of advice for everyone to be aware of. The day that a member has to report for his/her new job is not the same day that his Dependents, Household Goods and Effects have to be in place. There are provisions to allow members to report on time and move everything else at a leisurely, logical and convenient pace.
Bottom line: Don't panic - it's all going to happen.
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pd/rel-rei/aps-paa-2009/doc/aps-paa-2009-eng.pdf
If you are not being moved under the CFIRP, then you should read the Compensation and Benefits Instructions here:
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pub/cbi-dra/tc-tm-209-eng.asp
All of this may be a bit overwhelming, so if you have any things you want clarified, feel free to PM me with specific questions.
The most important thing to remember, is that the goal of relocation is to ensure that you are no better or worse off than you started. You should not be out of pocket, but at the same time, don't expect to make a profit either. Also remember that at least initially (while you are training), your postings may be "restricted" or "prohibited." This will affect whether your family will be moved with you or not. Unfortunately, only the Management Authority can decide what type of posting you will get. Your best conduit for that information, again, is the Recruiting Centre. At the end of the day, it will get sorted and be especially aware, that you don't necessarily have to do everything at once. If you want to proceed on course and have your family follow later when it is more convenient, that can be arranged.
That's a good piece of advice for everyone to be aware of. The day that a member has to report for his/her new job is not the same day that his Dependents, Household Goods and Effects have to be in place. There are provisions to allow members to report on time and move everything else at a leisurely, logical and convenient pace.
Bottom line: Don't panic - it's all going to happen.
meni0n
Sr. Member
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Here's an interesting one, I had an OT about a year ago and am waiting for my course on BTL at my current base when a certain school
in Kingston decided they need to have control over all of the pers waiting for course, so I was cut a posting message on 12th for a
restricted posting to Kingston on the 16th and on the same day Kingston attached posted me back here at the unit. It is a full posting to
Kingston since this is not my first posting and I have career status so the question came up when I called Brookfield what will
happen when they cancel my attach posting and I have to go to Kingston for my course. I am still entitled to a full move and all the benefits.
They're still trying to figure it out.
It would have been much easier to just leave me on BTL here and send me on TD for the course but that's not how the army does things.
Can they just change my posting to a prohibited one to just save money even though they have other OTs in Kingston on IR at the moment
in the same type of position as I am?
in Kingston decided they need to have control over all of the pers waiting for course, so I was cut a posting message on 12th for a
restricted posting to Kingston on the 16th and on the same day Kingston attached posted me back here at the unit. It is a full posting to
Kingston since this is not my first posting and I have career status so the question came up when I called Brookfield what will
happen when they cancel my attach posting and I have to go to Kingston for my course. I am still entitled to a full move and all the benefits.
They're still trying to figure it out.
It would have been much easier to just leave me on BTL here and send me on TD for the course but that's not how the army does things.
Can they just change my posting to a prohibited one to just save money even though they have other OTs in Kingston on IR at the moment
in the same type of position as I am?
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