Hurricane or Spitfire? Remembrance Day confusion

[MarkOttawa]

A letter sent today to the Ottawa Citizen:

I'm confused. The story, "CF-18 jets, vintage aircraft to fly over war memorial" (City section, Nov. 10),
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/city/story.html?id=984e1718-79ee-4126-ac5d-efa4fe1c1211

shows a photo of an aircraft that is called a "Hurricane Spitfire" in the caption. Now there is a Hawker Hurricane fighter, and there is a Supermarine Spitfire fighter, but there is no such thing as a "Hurricane Spitfire".

The text of the story says a Hurricane will fly over the Remembrance Day ceremony while the photo is actually that of a Spitfire. So which plane will in fact be flying November 11? I am pretty certain that it will be the Spitfire Mk XVI owned by Vintage Wings of Canada.
http://www.vintagewings.ca/inside.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Astrodog]

So you're saying the 'Hurricane Spitfire' didn't defeat the German 'Focke Wolfe Messershmit' for air supremacy over the skies of England?

 

[karl28]

Ya gotta love the media LOL now that story put a smile on my face LOL  ;D

 

[K225]

Since Mike Potter owns a Spitfie Mk IV (the aircraft in the picture) a Hurricane MkIV, and a Mustang IV (actually a P51D) and he has flown al three together we'll just have to go down to the ceremony and see won't we!
You see that screw up in the article will give you something to look forward to!   

 

[MarkOttawa]

Astrodog:  As the Fw 190 did not enter service until 1941,
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200010/ai_n8925541

I'm afraid there actually weren't any "'Focke Wolfe Messershmit" for the "Hurricane Spitfires" to take on during the Battle of Britain!

Mark
Ottawa

 

[daftandbarmy]

Here's an old model maker geek talking - I betcha it's a P 51B Mustang. Early variant with an Allison engine, before they tossed that junk aside and upgraded to a Rolls Royce Merlin and swept the skies clean of the Hun!

 

[MarkOttawa]

daftandbarmy: Actually, with the bubble canopy, most likely this:

The RAF assigned the name Mustang IV to the ‘D’ model and Mustang IVA to ‘K’ models.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-51_Mustanghttp://www.olympicflightmuseum.com/aircraft_gallery/p51d_mustang.htm

Mark
Ottawa

 

[daftandbarmy]

P51 B/C - Malcom canopy? What say you?

http://www.flightjournal.com/plane_profiles/p-51_mustang/drawing_p-51b-c_mustang_III.asp

 

[MarkOttawa]

daftandbarmy: Nope.  The 'Stang Vintage Wings has is with a straight sliding bubble, not a Malcolm.  Clearly a Mark IV in British terms.
http://www.vintagewings.ca/inside.html

On RAF planes with the Malcolm:
http://ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2000/01/stuff_eng_p51late.htm

Mustang Mk. III

The RAF equivalent to the USAAF P-51B/C was known as the Mustang III. The RAF ultimately received 274 P-51Bs and 626 P-51Cs.

A total of 59 Mustang IIIs were diverted to the Royal Australian Air Force and to other Allied air arms.

After these Mustang III aircraft had been delivered to England, the RAF decided that the hinged cockpit canopy offered too poor a view for European operations. A fairly major modification was made in which the original framed hinged hood was replaced by a bulged Perspex frameless canopy that slid to the rear on rails. This canopy gave the pilot much more room and the huge goldfish bowl afforded a good view almost straight down or directly to the rear. This hood was manufactured and fitted by the British corporation R. Malcolm & Co., and came to be known as the "Malcolm Hood". This hood was fitted to most RAF Mustang IIIs, and many USAAF Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51B/C fighters received this modification as well.

On the Mark IV:
http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk/aircraft/ustypes/ustypes.htm

Mark IV The NA-104 was similar to the USAAF P-51D and had a slightly more powerful version of the Packard Merlin and more importantly a tear-drop canopy. To improve longitudinal stability a dorsal fin was fitted at an early stage in production and the armament was changed to six .50 in guns in the wing. The Mark IV (and Mark IVA) joined units operating the earlier Mark III as aircraft became available; some units operated both versions.

Lots on bubbles here:
http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/p51variants/P-51D.shtml

Mark
Ottawa

 

[daftandbarmy]

Egads, out-geeked again. I concede and humbly slink away for my first Friday beer....

 

[K225]

The Vintage wings Mustang represents one flown by 442 Squadron (City of Vancouver) RCAF from April 1945 to August 1945.
It is not a commonly known fact that 442 Squadron RCAF flew one of the last operational missions in the European theatre of the Second World War. It was on May 9, 1945, the day after VE day. It was to provide top cover during the liberation of the Channel Islands which were the only British territories to be occupied by the Germans in World War II.
There were some differences between the RAF MKIV Mustangs and the P51D. The MKIV had a different prop, slightly flattened canopy, the "D" was more rounded, and the MKIV had distinctive louvres on the nacelle. Suttle differences though they may be. The paint scheme on Potter's Mustang shows someone did their homework (thanks to Bob Swaddling and Michael Potter) as it represents aircraft "C" of that squadron. The MKIVs were owned by the RAF flown by RCAF pilots, however aircraft "C" was a P51D not a MKIV as the others were. It is my understanding that Potter's Mustang was a former RCAF P51D as operated postwar.
"Never forget!"
Steve McKenzie

 

[condor888000]

I was at Beechwood, so I'm not sure what they did downtown, however we did have two flybys by Porter's P-51, despite the rain. Beautiful aircraft.

 

[K225]

I find it interesting that the WWII aircraft did a flyby at the rememberance day ceremony yet the CF 18s didn't. Something to be said about the old fashion technology?

 

[peaches]

Actually, it was something to be said about the weather, Bagotville was socked in.  I was controlling a mission outta there earlier this morning, weather was hairy.

 

[K225]

I know but it will give the vetrans something to brag about as they chew the rag!!

 

[MarkOttawa]

Meanwhile, the RAF is updating is Spitfire, Hurricane, Lancaster fleets.
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/11/10/Navigation/177/210499/Pictures+UK+Royal+Air+Force+seeks+upgrade+for+Supermarine.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[K225]

We are blessed with warbirds in the region now beside Potter's collection there is Ed Russell's group and the Canadian Warplane Hertigae group from Hamilton. That leads me to wonder how their Lancaster is fairing, I made a donation back in 1979 towards the renovation and 27 years layer she is still flying. Amazing when you think he original Merlin's were only intended for 1000 hrs.

 

[K225]

Earl Chapman the former Chief Engineer at Vintage Wings sent me the following information.  He did the majority of the research for the colours, markings, stenciling placement, overseas roundel design and all the other myriad of details surrounding the refinishing of this aircraft. Over the period of his research he was assisted by Randy Lutz, Steve Sauve and Ron Wylie. These individuals deserve credit for their assistance with the project as they provided rare photographs and offered advice on such things as the colour of the overseas roundel background and the size of the code letters.

Earl is not one to wave his own flag, however he did a wonderful job and I should set the record straight. He should be proud of the work, and I know he is, on the Mustang refinishing and should  be given due credit.

Just goes to show you don't believe everything you see on the internet!
I have had the opportunity to work with some of the staff and volunteers at Vintage Wings and they are a great bunch of guys and gals. I noticed an excellent article on Vintage Wings Canada in a British aviation magazine currently at Chapters must pick it up.
Thanks Earl!
Steve