Leopards bite

[104thNBR]

Was wondering if the 105mm gun will still take on anything it would meet on todays battlefields.  I know that the fire controll system on the leopard is top notch, but even if they get off the first shot and its on target will it take out a Russian MBT?

 

[Sharpey]

Don't think it matters now seeing as they are all gone 

 

[George Wallace]

Well, it would depend on which Russian MBT you were taking on and where you were shooting it.

GW

 

[Recce41]

Fellas
The Brits have a 105 rd that has the same power as the 120. The problem is it;'s case less.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

The 105 will still defeat over 80% of the tanks in the world by hitting on the frontal armour, and will defeat 100% of the tanks in the world with flank or rear shots.  It cannot defeat the frontal aspect of the Challenger II, the M1A1(HA), the M1A2, the Merkava, the T90 and most likely the Leclerc.

If you look at the potential threats, the 105, combined with the modern FCS as in the LeoC2, is still a very credible battlefield weapon.

Of course, the Leopard C2 can be upgunned to the 120, if the political will was there...........

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The 105 will still defeat over 80% of the tanks in the world by hitting on the frontal armour, and will defeat 100% of the tanks in the world with flank or rear shots.   It cannot defeat the frontal aspect of the Challenger II, the M1A1(HA), the M1A2, the Merkava, the T90 and most likely the Leclerc.

If you look at the potential threats, the 105, combined with the modern FCS as in the LeoC2, is still a very credible battlefield weapon.

Of course, the Leopard C2 can be upgunned to the 120, if the political will was there...........

Well, the Sherman 75 couldn't knock out the best enemy armour frontally either.  I guess today we would have to do the same thing we did in Normandy, and rely on overwhelming indirect fire from our excellent artillery syst....

Oh wait, didn't we get rid of the M-109s, also?

Never mind, then.

 

[12alfa]

I would think that the latest version of the t-72, and some versions of the T-80 are not going to be penetrated in the front also, even with M-900 105mm ammo.

But yes the 105 can still do what we see as our main enemy)MBT's) and lets not forget those apc,MICV's also.
Some seem to forget that our 25mm can't do much against them, i'm talking about modern ones here with advance amour.

 

[Recce41]

I know old vets that were hit in tanks. Even if it does'nt go through. It does hurt. You don't have to blow it apart to stop it.

 

[Franko]

I know old vets that were hit in tanks. Even if it does'nt go through. It does hurt. You don't have to blow it apart to stop it.

Thanks for beating me to it 

Regards

 

[Lance Wiebe]

12A

I used the word "defeat" intentionally. 

Penetration is not necessarily required to defeat a tank.  That has been proven many times.

 

[12alfa]

Yes, this is true.
Although in modern tanks i think that it will require it to get through the armour. Not all the time but as you know the user's of Hesh is very small, and it is required for that large shock effect to stun the crew.  Granted the crew is not 100% after any hit, any crew is still dangrous, more so after being hit i would think.

MBT's i would think need to be really penetrated, they have armour that is much better than say the Sherm's of yesterday.Fire supression sys's, ammo compartments improvements tend to help .
They as we have seen in Iraq taken many hits, and keep going, only when they get pentrated to the turret do we see a KIA.

Russian equipment on the other hand is loaded with exposed ammo, and any penetration is likely to do very bad things.

We can't compare the tanks of yesterday to modern ones for taken hits I would think, we have come a long way in so many thing to keep us from injury from a non-pentrating hit.

But I could be mistaken, most of my data is from the last 20 years in this matter.I have read that crew will not dump their tank even while it burns, like a captian and his ship. Now this may be a US tanker thing, I feel that we see our veh as part of us and will not leave it till it's a matter of life or death, and we have seen that even this will not stop some crews from trying to save his ride.
The US has lost crews fighting to put out a fire on a M1 (while under fire) from the rear deck, they wanted to fight, a small matter of a engine fire was not going to stop them from helping their fellow ptl, and their mission. Would we be any different?

 

[Recce41]

12A
Even in new tanks, effect is the same. A Brit that spoke to us about the Gulf war, was in a Challenger. He said even the old tanks of the Iraqs, stopped them.

 

[Spr.Earl]

"Well, the Sherman 75 couldn't knock out the best enemy armour frontally either. "
Ah but there again the learned how to bounce the round down off the mantle into the hull kiling the driver etc.

 

[12alfa]

12A
Even in new tanks, effect is the same. A Brit that spoke to us about the Gulf war, was in a Challenger. He said even the old tanks of the Iraqs, stopped them.

Well I can't dispute a person who was there.

Although i can't see how a t-72 firing steel sabots, or a t-55/62 would stop a Challenger 1 that has the upamour kit on it.
This while they (challey1's) are recording the longest kills in tank history.

The two stories do not add up, or am i missing something here?

The challenger 1 (70's tech) out-matches even the latest T-72's which Iraq did not have, in ammo, fcs,armour, and as we have seen crews.
Fastforward to the Challenger2 (80's tech), how does the t-72 look now, well it has even a bigger over match.They would have nothing to fear from any T-72, and some would say from any T-80/90 even with their best ammo.The challey2 has more armour than any BM ammo from the russians would penetrate.

Something is missing in this story, anyone care to explain?

 

[gnplummer421]

I thought the British tanks were known for the thickest/best Armour, is there any new generation protection coming out?

 

[Recce41]

As I understood it, The Iraqs would fire at the track, rear of the tanks or just fire a one tank. My father told me the same thing about the Tigers, just fire at the track then fire every tank to knock it out.