Military Terminology - Where did it come from?

[George Wallace]

Often we use terms and expressions in our daily operations, and although we may know what they mean or refer to, we often have no idea where the term or expression originated from.  Some of these terms and expressions are so lost in our ancient military history, that finding where they originated if often left to "old wife's tales".

Here is an opportunity for us to discuss the origins of some of our commonplace terminology and expressions used in the workplace, on our Nets and in the Field/at Sea.

 

[GulfOfTalkin]

I see this asked about sometimes.  A lot of people think that the Duff in No Duff is a version of Guff, as in No Guff.  In fact the term comes from the old days of radio warfare where instead of instant pinpointing of radio signals that we can do today, another technique was used which was known as direction finding.  During friendly exercises with force on force simulations if there was a real world situation that needed to be dealt with (injury, fire, etc.) the forces could say "No Direction Finding" at the start of their radio message so that other forces would not cheat and use direction finding to give themselves an unfair advantage that they might not otherwise have.  "No Direction Finding" became "No DF" which became "No Duff." 

(told to me by a signals MWO on a QL4 Comms course)

 

[my72jeep]

I love the saying Son Of A Gun
This I am told by A wise Coxswain refers to a child conceived on board ship under a cannon.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Lock, stock and barrel. List of issue for all the parts to make a musket, now means complete. As I understand it, sometimes only the lock and barrel wee shipped and the stock would be made locally.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I see this asked about sometimes.  A lot of people think that the Duff in No Duff is a version of Guff, as in No Guff.  In fact the term comes from the old days of radio warfare where instead of instant pinpointing of radio signals that we can do today, another technique was used which was known as direction finding.  During friendly exercises with force on force simulations if there was a real world situation that needed to be dealt with (injury, fire, etc.) the forces could say "No Direction Finding" at the start of their radio message so that other forces would not cheat and use direction finding to give themselves an unfair advantage that they might not otherwise have.  "No Direction Finding" became "No DF" which became "No Duff." 

(told to me by a signals MWO on a QL4 Comms course)

I heard that Duff Gen was wartime RAF/RCAF slang meaning incorrect information. That expression led to the signalling expression "No duff" which means "real." 

"Gen" was slang for information, but information from a higher HQ was also known as the "poop from group."

Correct information was sometimes called "pukka gen" which could lead to a "Pukka Sapper" discussion.

 

[MARS]

"Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey"
Although Snopes indicates it might not be true, navy lore indicates it stems from the time of cannons and cannon balls, which were tacked on a brass plate called a monkey.  Brass expands and contracts at a different rate than iron in cold and hot weather, which would cause the pyramid of cannon balls to fall down in extreme cold weather.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Irish pennant, frayed rope end.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Irish pennant, frayed rope end.

Irish pennant: also a loose thread peeking out from somewhere on one's uniform where loose threads were unwelcome; often, if spotted by an NCO, worth a couple of days of extra work and drill.  :-\

 

[jpjohnsn]

"Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey"
Although Snopes indicates it might not be true, navy lore indicates it stems from the time of cannons and cannon balls, which were tacked on a brass plate called a monkey.  Brass expands and contracts at a different rate than iron in cold and hot weather, which would cause the pyramid of cannon balls to fall down in extreme cold weather.

Looking at it logically, you can debunk it as a myth.  How long will a pyramid of cannonballs stay stacked on a pitching deck?

 

[Journeyman]

Looking at it logically, you can debunk it as a myth.  How long will a pyramid of cannonballs stay stacked on a pitching deck?

Only if your "logic" dismisses cannons being readied behind a caponier, within a counterscarp battery, or a martello tower.....you know, those rare things whose designers somehow neglected pitching decks, but could theoretically get chilly nonetheless.

 

[jpjohnsn]

Only if your "logic" dismisses cannons being readied behind a caponier, within a counterscarp battery, or a martello tower.....you know, those rare things whose designers somehow neglected pitching decks, but could theoretically get chilly nonetheless.

Being that the supposed military etymology of the brass monkey story is universally cited as coming from the navy, my logic is sound. 

If you want to get more technical, a brass ring would not shrink enough in the cold, nor would iron shot expand enough in the heat, to cause the latter to become dislodged from the former.

 

[Journeyman]

Being that the supposed military etymology of the brass monkey story is universally cited as coming from the navy, my logic is sound. 

Personally, I'm predisposed to believe it's BS for the temperature/physics you cited, but you can say only that it's pretty unlikely for Naval storage of ready shot.  History has one, perhaps two, examples of cannons being used from fixed fortifications on land, and it's perfectly logical to have a ring of some sort to hold four balls, either beside the gun or by a furnace if one were to heat them before firing. 

I'm just not as predisposed to dismiss something as illogical simply because you choose only what fits inside the story you want to tell.

Either way, feel free to jump in with the last word if you're really pumped about the topic.

 

[Loachman]

I heard that Duff Gen was wartime RAF/RCAF slang meaning incorrect information. That expression led to the signalling expression "No duff" which means "real." 

"Gen" was slang for information, but information from a higher HQ was also known as the "poop from group."

Correct information was sometimes called "pukka gen" which could lead to a "Pukka Sapper" discussion.

Fitting with the above, one definition from Dictionary.com is: "1. to give a deliberately deceptive appearance to; misrepresent; fake."

An example sentence from the same source is: "Much of the duff  information came from ignorant sales people and junior staff".

Urban Dictionary http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Duff%20Gen: "1.  Incorrect information. May have had origins in the RAF." - "That tip you gave me for the 2.30 at Sandown turned out to be duff gen."

Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_slang: "Duff - bad or not accurate, as in "duff gen" (inaccurate intelligence or incorrect information)."

 

[Michael OLeary]

History has one, perhaps two, examples of cannons being used from fixed fortifications on land, and it's perfectly logical to have a ring of some sort to hold four balls, either beside the gun or by a furnace if one were to heat them before firing. 

HMS Diamond Rock, for example, although the sailors that manned her battery probably never had to worry about the cold.

Regardless, just because it is an old saying has never meant that there has to be a grain of (or complete) literal truth embedded in it.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Two sources of military slang:

    1. Overseas service, especially in the Indian Army in the 19th century; and

    2. Signalling - the need for brevity (consider abbreviations: everything from SITREP to ACK), low level security (e.g. appointment titles like Sunray, Foxhound, Bluebell and so on) and clarity - think fixed callsigns -
        came to us from the pressures imposed by the nature of signal systems, especially voice radio.

 

[Infanteer]

The one I liked best was "Roger" - the old phonetic alphabet's "R", for Received.

The amount of jargon we use is incredible if you take the time to listen to a bunch of military people talk.  I had a reporter listen to me give orders to my Pl in Afghanistan for 20 minutes and he said the only thing he really understood was the work "f**k", which was used a lot.

 

[Shamrock]

Two sources of military slang:

    1. Overseas service, especially in the Indian Army in the 19th century; and

    2. Signalling - the need for brevity (consider abbreviations: everything from SITREP to ACK), low level security (e.g. appointment titles like Sunray, Foxhound, Bluebell and so on) and clarity - think fixed callsigns -
        came to us from the pressures imposed by the nature of signal systems, especially voice radio.

Don't forget anachronisms.  The rest of Canada must be an unwashed mass - only the army performs daily ablutions. 

The Navy has some good ones.

 

[George Wallace]

Yes.  TLA's are often FLA's or even MLA's, but for simplicity TLA is used.  ;D

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Not sure if the navy used it, but Coast Guard always called laundry Duhby (spelling?) Arabic for laundry

 

[MeanJean]

Fitting with the above, one definition from Dictionary.com is: "1. to give a deliberately deceptive appearance to; misrepresent; fake."

An example sentence from the same source is: "Much of the duff  information came from ignorant sales people and junior staff".
Urban Dictionary http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Duff%20Gen: "1.  Incorrect information. May have had origins in the RAF." - "That tip you gave me for the 2.30 at Sandown turned out to be duff gen."

Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_slang: "Duff - bad or not accurate, as in "duff gen" (inaccurate intelligence or incorrect information)."

And I thought duff came from the galley... In the navy we call our desserts duff.  Although, correct me if I am wrong, the blokes from the RN use that term for pudding.