ND

[HPER]

It seems some Cdns in Bosnia have "solved" the ND
problem... by removing the firing pin from their
weapon. The sad part is that, upon being found out,
were merely ordered to put it back.

 

[Master Blaster]

It would appear (if your story is true and I have little doubt of it) that shortcomings in leadership development and training are coming to the forefront in the operational aspects of warfare. If a soldier, regardless of occupation or position, is more afraid to ‘accidentally or through negligence‘ discharge his/her weapon to remove the actuator of the ignition system, we no longer have soldiers, we have under paid security guards.

Think of a time in any of your military careers that would allow you as an operatonal commander to inflict more fear from a soldier to cause him to ‘deactivate‘ his weapon than to instill the respect and reason to learn the weapon to the extent that he will treat it with the respect it deserves.

More range time, live fire training, examination of enemy dead/wounded, preparation for operational deployment with live/loaded weapons. Courtesy and respect to the soldier, not fear and mistrust.

In each occupation, no matter how benign, there is an element of risk. The soldier may come to task at some time in his future to place his weapon between tyranny and freedom. Why is the soldier of which this is demanded not trusted to have a loaded weapon in an operational area?

Just some thoughts from an old soldier.


Dileas Gu Brath

 

[the patriot]

Or you could just remember to put your weapon on safe before going on patrol........ just an idea maybe?!!!! We all have thumbs that can very flip that switch on the C7. It isn‘t all that difficult.

-the patriot-

 

[Argyll]

I just really hope that's just another stpid story that got blown out of proportion because there's just too much wrong with that situation to accept as the truth.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

You do know that the last post here was 5 years ago and these people have long since moved on?  :

 

[Jarnhamar]

So should we give him a blast of shit for ressurecting a 5 year old post or pat him on the back for using the search engine or something

 

[AZA-02]

HAHAHA there probably dead.... :warstory:

 

[1feral1]

Crikey this is an old thread isn't it.

Think about it. How can you remove a firing pin from a C7 without the whole bloody bolt carrier falling apart. Think, the FP goes thru the bolt cam pin which holds the bolt in.

I think thats all BS, and you'd be a fool to do it even if you could. How can you defend yourself or others for that matter.

One also needs the FP spring tension on the Minimi to hold the bolt in the op rod also. All BS.

Another urban myth shit-canned.

Shaking head,

Wes

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

So should we give him a blast of crap for resurrecting a 5 year old post or pat him on the back for using the search engine or something

have no problem with people using the Search Engine (for a change) to resurrect a long dead thread as long as they have something meaningful or insightful to add which never happened in this case.

 

[TCBF]

Would it be meaningful or insitefull to say that it was an NSE bus drivers driving unarmed soldiers from the airhead to theeir camps - where they would then pick up their wpns?  And that the bus drivers were the only ones armed on the bus and therefore responsible for protecting their passengers?  Or that he removed the bolt, firing pin, cam pin and firing pin retaining pin from his bolt carrier?  Think Croatia 94 thereabouts.  That was the way I first heard this.  I was not there, so maybe another person who was could verify it.  Any 94 tour Strats out there?

Tom

 

[SeanPaul_031]

Im still a noob whats ND?

And like someone wrote above dont these rifles have 'safety' switches?

 

[TCBF]

ND is Negligent Discharge.

Yes, the selector does have a 'SAFE' position 

Tom

 

[DELTADOG13]

:warstory:
I thought since this post has been resurrected I would add my own little story.

Picture it............the Balkans............the Plain of Blackbirds..............Kosovo!
Near the end of our committment to KFOR a platoon of the Battlegroup was formed to join the NSE to tke over the Camp Security tasks.
So we get their and on all the clearing bays are step by step instructions  on how to clear Pistols, C7 and C9's. We couldn't believe it. we found out later it was because there were so many ND's that these steps had to be taken. Plus weekly refresher training on TOETS. I guess this didn't work because many of the NSE were to scared of their weapons that they had removed their firing pins from their weapons.
:skull:
SCARY ISN'T IT

Cheers!

 

[Chimo]

On Op Apollo, in Kandahar, we had very few problems with NDs compared to a typical Bosnia mission. I believe, off the top of my head, there were a total of 4, for the 6 month duration, 3 from the 9mm pistol, and 1 C7.

We discussed the results at some length at the AAR and came up with the point that we were not forced to continually clear our weapons, and that lessened the possibility of an ND. As far as the 9 mm, the discussion arouse around the point of lack of use on exercise, and only really drawn for missions/operations and there is a lack of handling skills/ knowledge withthe weapon.  :threat:

I think as an institution we need to examine the "clearing policy" and why it is in place and should it be modified or dropped. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

I never liked walking around camp without a magazine on my weapon.  I don't really consider our camps that protected and i'm sure it's pretty easy to sneak into them. I'd much rather have a magazine in my weapon 24/7.

 

[KevinB]

FACT as MJP can corraborate - their was a troops who took the bolt out of his C9 in Afghan

Fact Yes NSE pers did in fact take out their firing pins.

Yes people are this stupid.

 

[devil39]

To take the firing pin or bolt out would qualify for DB Edmonton time in my books.  I would set up inspections to specifically pick that up if I was so empowered.

Familiarity with weapons will avoid NDs.  Troops should review TOETs on every weapon, every week, as far as I am concerned.  On tour they should clean their personal weapon a minimum of twice a day... I do if I am carrying mine. 

They should fire their weapon as often as ammo will allow (weekly?).  Generally this is more likely to occur on tour.

 

[KevinB]

IIRC the Cpl in question got a stern lecture  :
  WE ALL (Capt on down) felt he deserved digger time and plane ticket home.


It was worse IMHO that the two idiot that racked out on Sentry (no one attacks at night - right?)

 

[MJP]

IIRC the Cpl in question got a stern lecture   :
  WE ALL (Capt on down) felt he deserved digger time and plane ticket home.

Oh yes...the "I forgot my bolt" moron
Ahh well never know the true intent of the Cpl in question....he said he forgot it when he reassembled his weapon from his barrack box.  I argued in agreeance with section comd that there was a history of that sort of negligence(first hand in my case) but in the end the Sect Comd didn't get his way in the realm of punishment.  Devil39 your punishment was pretty close to what was being pushed for, wasn't supported by the chain though.

 

[KevinB]

Devil39 your punishment was pretty close to what was being pushed for, wasn't supported by the chain though.

Would you mind if I replaced chain with wet noodle