Ordered to work on days off?

[Quantum]

I'm a reservist with the Canadian Military. 6 years in, great at what I do and I love the work.

Problem: My current (new) staff *loves* memos; for everything...

QUESTION: Can I be ordered to write multiple memos, from home, while not being paid? I'd understand if I was asking for something (time off or to be excused from a commitment etc) but this is not the case. They want memos because I was unable to make 2 (very last minute) work requests.

With kids, family, 2 dogs and a wife that works odd shifts, my life is heavily scheduled. I can't take on a work commitment with 2 to 5 days notice. So, can I be ordered to use my own free time to explain, in memo format why  I could not make it?

 

[TwoTonShackle]

Technically you can only disobey a direct command while you are subject to the NDA.  As a reservist you are only subject to that code while on Class A, B, or C service, or when on military property.  So could you be ordered to perform a task while not being employed to do so, I would say no, not legally.  If that is your intent, maybe you should respond with your intention to draft the memos first thing on the next training night. 

Personally, I would take the 5 minutes and write the memos.

 

[George Wallace]

I'm a reservist with the Canadian Military. 6 years in, great at what I do and I love the work.

Problem: My current (new) staff *loves* memos; for everything...

QUESTION: Can I be ordered to write multiple memos, from home, while not being paid? I'd understand if I was asking for something (time off or to be excused from a commitment etc) but this is not the case. They want memos because I was unable to make 2 (very last minute) work requests.

With kids, family, 2 dogs and a wife that works odd shifts, my life is heavily scheduled. I can't take on a work commitment with 2 to 5 days notice. So, can I be ordered to use my own free time to explain, in memo format why  I could not make it?

This is a joke, RIGHT?  You really are not serious?

You seriously are asking a question about having to write a memo on your own time? 

As a member of the CAF, including the  RESERVES, one will from time to time have to write a memo for any number of reasons.  That does not always have to be done during working hours.  It is a form of correspondence and can be done at any time. 

If you are such a thin skinned person who can not sit down and take a few moments to write a memo to explain your absence from a Parade Night, then perhaps you should reconsider your employment in the Reserves.  I am sure that the CoC WILL NOT contemplate allowing you the opportunity to sign a Pay Sheet for sitting at home drafting a memo requesting your RELEASE. 

Shake your head.

Write the memo and stop complaining. 

[Edit to add:  You took the time to register onto this site and create a topic.  In that time, you could have taken your preciously limited time and drafted your memo.]

 

[Quantum]

When my choice is either A) play with my kids for 30 minutes that day or B) right yet another memo (in this case 2) then yes, I have to ask myself if this is something I really want to do.

If, as you say, I had to write one "from time to time", I wouldn't care nor have I ever questioned or thought about it. When memos are now being requested of me on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, then I start to reconsider the willingness of sitting at home and writing yet another. We don't have the luxury of a 9 to 5 job, time spent with the family is precious and I won't have it taken away; especially not by weekly unpaid work. Currently, life does not allow much down time.

Your answer was not helpful in the least; it is not a question of writing "a memo" but of writing them (on a now) regular basis.

If you re-read my question, you will notice that it is in fact a question;  not a complaint. The previous answer (by TwoTonShackle) was quite helpful;  I have emailed my COC and asked if I can write them when I next come in on Friday; they have agreed.

I did not need a finger pointing, self-righteous attitude; I simply needed a straight answer to give me a little direction.

 

[Monsoon]

Technically you can only disobey a direct command while you are subject to the NDA.  As a reservist you are only subject to that code while on Class A, B, or C service, or when on military property.  So could you be ordered to perform a task while not being employed to do so, I would say no, not legally. 

This is completely incorrect. While it is true that a person can only be charged under the disciplinary system for something that they do or fail to do as ordered while subject to the NDA, there are two things the chain of command CAN do:

- Give you an order on one period that you're subject to the NDA (draft a memo, appear here next Saturday, etc) and charge you the next time you are subject to the NDA for failing to do it; and

- Place you on remedial measures leading (eventually) to release for not doing your job, regardless of whether you were subject to the NDA in between or not.

Personally, I would take the 5 minutes and write the memos.

But you've arrived at the right conclusion :nod:. In fact it probably took him longer to post to this forum than it would take to write the memos in question (particularly because he actually included what appears to be a valid explanation for why he couldn't make it to work in the post itself).

 

[chrisf]

Maybe I'm reading something different here, the original poster can clarify, but what I'm reading is that someone's chain of command needed someone last minute, attempted to order the op to come into work, and is now attempting to swing their dick around in an attempt to badger the op into doing it. Am I reading wrong?

Unless it was scheduled unit training, or it was something you agreed to and are now backing out of, not really sure why anyone is demanding a memo...

At least that's what I'm reading here, the op has an issue with writing a memo, but the bigger problem is that at least one link in the chain of command thinks they can order a class a reservist to come in for last minute class a taskings...

If anyone wants to pretend that sort of nonsense doesn't happen, they haven't spent enough time around reserve units.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I'm with the OP on this.

If I'm asked to provide a service then I expect to be paid for that service................unless of course his bosses wish to start paying the lads/ladettes 24/7?

Yea, I thought not. :

 

[George Wallace]

When my choice is either A) play with my kids for 30 minutes that day or B) right yet another memo (in this case 2) then yes, I have to ask myself if this is something I really want to do.

Fine.  Your statement that you would rather spend 30 minutes with your kids than write a memo is valid.  However, in the amount of time that it took you to SEARCH the internet, find this site and register, create a Topic and post, all on your own time, I am sure that all of the time you have been away from your kids to do this, could easily covered the amount of time needed to write a memo or two.

I did not need a finger pointing, self-righteous attitude; I simply needed a straight answer to give me a little direction.

As you continue to visit this site and post, contrary to you complaints of having not enough time for your family life, all I can say is ........    :
Nothing self-righteous in it at all. 


Sig Op

The OP is complaining that they have been told to write a memo/memos on their own time.

They have since stated that they have emailed their CoC and got permission to do so on their next Parade night.  Problem actually solved.

Part of their complaint was that they had a hectic family life and writing a memo took away from their quality of life, but they could search the internet, find this site, register in the last 12 hours and start this Topic.  How that (coming to this site) took away from their quality time with their children is totally ignored.  Now we are accused of being "self-righteous" and "finger pointing" for pointing out the contradictions here, and telling the OP to take five minutes to draft a memo. 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Maybe not everyone folds like a cheap suit?.......just sayin'.......

 

[MJP]

When my choice is either A) play with my kids for 30 minutes that day or B) right yet another memo (in this case 2) then yes, I have to ask myself if this is something I really want to do.

If, as you say, I had to write one "from time to time", I wouldn't care nor have I ever questioned or thought about it. When memos are now being requested of me on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, then I start to reconsider the willingness of sitting at home and writing yet another. We don't have the luxury of a 9 to 5 job, time spent with the family is precious and I won't have it taken away; especially not by weekly unpaid work. Currently, life does not allow much down time.

Your answer was not helpful in the least; it is not a question of writing "a memo" but of writing them (on a now) regular basis.

If you re-read my question, you will notice that it is in fact a question;  not a complaint. The previous answer (by TwoTonShackle) was quite helpful;  I have emailed my COC and asked if I can write them when I next come in on Friday; they have agreed.

I did not need a finger pointing, self-righteous attitude; I simply needed a straight answer to give me a little direction.

First, you'll find that there are those on this site that very seldom provide meaningful advice but certainly like to think they are.  My advice is to just ignore them.

Second. your question is a poignant one in an ever more connected world.  I have seen a growing trend in the Class A reserve world to expect more from part time soldiers in their days off.  Unless it is paid for I am of the mind that soldiers should be left alone.  Work should be done at work.  Certainly some give in terms of email clarification of things is good and I am glad you have done so and your CoC has agreed.  Hopefully this sort of common sense prevails…

 

[George Wallace]

Let's end this now before we start asking if the OP should be paid for conducting email correspondence with their CoC outside of work hours.

The OP has solved their perceived problem through their email correspondence with their CoC and got permission to take time away from training to compose their memo/memos. 

END.

 

[Journeyman]

When you get a moment of computer time at the Armouries, make up a memo template and save it. 

You can leave the reason for not being available for the tasking blank, to be filled in; if it is recurring, put in some options to be deleted if not relevant ("conflict with spouse's schedule," "civie job requirements," "your poor planning doesn't make it my crisis".....).  Other than task detail ("...ref 15 Sep GD task...") all the rest should be standard repetition, including the Distr List, if the memo requirement is coming from the same person.

Shake your head.

:not-again:    Oh, I am.

 

[X Royal]

This problem of assigning projects during off hours in the reserves is a long way from new.
When it got worse for me is when regular force members are in positions in a reserve unit. They are use to the 24/7 routine some and figure nothing is wrong assigning projects during off hours.
When I was ordered to complete 2 lesson plans (for a unit library) before the next training night my response was I was available to come in on an administration night to do them. I was told no extra pay was authorized just get it done at home.
Needless to say I told them to pound salt.
This was back in the day of the 10/90 battalions.
Some reserve units have had problems when they fail to realize accommodations have to be made for reservists who's schedules don't fit a regular force one timing for all members attitude.

 

[brihard]

Valid question on the OP's part, and I say this as one who has done a ton of 'off the books' work for my reserve unit over the years. I never minded doing so when there was actual work to be done, or it was one of my troops contacting me at weird hours about a problem that fell within my purview as a section commander.

But it looks like in this case, some self-important twit is generating unnecessary staff work. Sometimes reservists can't make it to work, or rather can't get something done on the very short notice that is given them. That's the nature of the beast, and it rewards proper planning within the unit level and punishes laziness or inattentiveness on the part of same. It looks like the OP is increasingly finding his personal time eaten up not with useful 'bonus work', but with useless stuff that he is expected to do on his own without compensation. I see nothing wrong with him offering a 'pound sand' on this one, and it's not unreasonable for a junior leader in the reserves to come to a site like this and get some advice/mentorship form his peers and seniors who've often been through this before.

Reserve units often have admin nights for exactly this kind of reason- to come in and do admin. If they refuse to allow him to avail himself of the mechanism already set up for this kind of thing, screw 'em.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Holy shitballs.

Bringing up all this stuff about disobeying this and that, remedial measures, etc.

Seriously?  People are suggesting that "work on your time at home while not on the paysheet" would constitute a LAWFUL command?  And if you didn't you could be placed on a RM?

:facepalm:

 

[DAA]

Problem: My current (new) staff *loves* memos; for everything...

QUESTION: Can I be ordered to write multiple memos, from home, while not being paid? I'd understand if I was asking for something (time off or to be excused from a commitment etc) but this is not the case. They want memos because I was unable to make 2 (very last minute) work requests.

With kids, family, 2 dogs and a wife that works odd shifts, my life is heavily scheduled. I can't take on a work commitment with 2 to 5 days notice. So, can I be ordered to use my own free time to explain, in memo format why  I could not make it?

And the OPs follow up was......

When my choice is either A) play with my kids for 30 minutes that day or B) right yet another memo (in this case 2) then yes, I have to ask myself if this is something I really want to do.

If, as you say, I had to write one "from time to time", I wouldn't care nor have I ever questioned or thought about it. When memos are now being requested of me on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, then I start to reconsider the willingness of sitting at home and writing yet another. We don't have the luxury of a 9 to 5 job, time spent with the family is precious and I won't have it taken away; especially not by weekly unpaid work. Currently, life does not allow much down time.

So, based on the first post, who doesn't love memo's?  At least you now have something in writing and don't have to use anecdotal responses later on, which you can't back up.

I wouldn't exactly call this a "last minute" response, seeing as the OP clearly says, "I can't take on a work commitment with 2 to 5 days notice".

Come to think of it, I don't even see this as a work commitment!  The unit has asked him to provide support, he has declined the request based on what he deems "short notice", which by the way, "Class A" Reservists have every right to do regardless of the timelines involved, so the Unit is now trying to document just why he is turning down their requests!

Seems pretty simple to me and nothing to lose sleep over.  Mind you, based on the second post, the unit is now allowing the OP the time to respond, while they are on "company" time.

 

[Monsoon]

Holy shitballs.

Bringing up all this stuff about disobeying this and that, remedial measures, etc.

Seriously?  People are suggesting that "work on your time at home while not on the paysheet" would constitute a LAWFUL command?  And if you didn't you could be placed on a RM?

:facepalm:

I don't know who this guy is and - like every single other person on this forum with the possible exception of the OP himself - have no knowledge of the fuller circumstances of the case from the scanty and perspective-skewed details provided. I was just correcting some manifestly wrong related information provided by another poster.

As for the topic itself, whether you regard the OP as a poor belaboured soul being oppressed by a ruthless CoC or as a potential chronic sh*tbird who needs correction is really just a Rorschach test blot to figure out your general perspective within the CF.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Holy fuck!

Everyone stop!

I spent 8 years in the Reserves, and loved every minute of it - to the point that I took a 50% cut in pay and joined the Regs, much to the dismay of the training wife.

I would NOT be a Reservist now,  We have sucked all of the joy out of it, and left just the retarded ass pain of Army life.

The dude has a point, and his "leadership" needs to take their head out of their asses.

 

[Shamrock]

The dude has a point, and his "leadership" needs to take their head out of their asses.

What really amuses me is the flat out inefficiency of the exercise.  There's probably more staff hours involved in the generation, handling, and responding to the message than the original work day entailed.

We need to adopt economy of administration as one of our principles.

 

[ModlrMike]

I suppose now would be a good time to point out that my unit has a proforma for just this issue. We don't use them that aggressively, except for NES commandos. The other reason we use them is to forecast attendance at major training evolutions so that we can budget for such things as feeding etc. Fill out the form, pass it to your boss, problem solved.