Ottawa couple fighting for twin EI parental leaves

[GAP]

Ottawa couple fighting for twin parental leaves
Last Updated: Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Article Link

A couple expecting two babies at the same time is fighting for the right to take one paid parental leave for each child.

Christian Martin and Paula Critchley were thrilled and excited to learn that they will be having twins next spring.

"But we're nervous because it's two and I would have a hard time taking care of both of them on my own," said Critchley.

When a birth or adoption takes place in Canada, the parents may take a total of 35 weeks of parental leave, while receiving benefits under Canada's Employment Insurance program. The weeks taken by each parent are added together, so if both parents take the leave at the same time, they only get paid parental leave for 17.5 weeks (although the birth mother may also take 15 weeks of maternity leave).

The rule applies no matter how many children are born or adopted by the parents at the same time.

The couple sent a letter to Human Resources Minister Diane Finley, who is responsible for the employment insurance program, arguing that parents of twins should receive 35 weeks of parental leave for each child.

"It seems that two children bring double the responsibility and therefore a second claimant should be able to claim a second child," said Martin.
More on link

 

[vonGarvin]

Ottawa couple fighting for twin parental leaves
Last Updated: Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Article Link
"It seems that two children bring double the responsibility and therefore a second claimant should be able to claim a second child," said Martin.
More on link

And what of triplets? 
It is a rather shallow argument, trying to get me to pay for their kids to that extent.  Yes, me.  I'm a tax payer, and even though only a few pennies of mine might end up in their respective pockets, this is ludicrous.  Totally. 

 

[Occam]

There's actually an update on this case this morning:

Both parents of twins get leave: EI board
Last Updated: Friday, September 18, 2009 | 9:08 AM ET

Article Link

An Ottawa couple has successfully argued that both parents of twins should be able to receive Employment Insurance benefits for full parental leave.
The father of twin girls born in April convinced an Employment Insurance board that each parent should be able to claim benefits for one of their twins.

The decision overturned a previous decision denying the claim.

The ruling by an Employment Insurance Board of Referees applies only to the couple, Christian Martin and Paula Critchley, the board said.

Chair of the group Multiple Births Canada, Gail Moore, said the decision sets a precedent for parents of multiples births.

But, she said, EI officials aren't necessarily bound by the ruling in future cases.

Mainly because of the increased use of fertility drugs, multiple births have been soaring in Canada.

The group Multiple Births Canada has been lobbying for greater benefits for parents of multiple births.

 

[Loachman]

I'm a tax payer, and even though only a few pennies of mine might end up in their respective pockets, this is ludicrous.  Totally.

Just like a few pennies of those kids will end up in your pockets in your pensionable years?

Not that I agree with the decision at all.

 

[PMedMoe]

Ridiculous.  Can we make parental benefits retroactive for those of us who never received it when our children were born?  :

 

[CountDC]

wow they bought into it.

wonder if I can get them to go for me taking 2 periods of leave if we have twins.  18 months out of uniform with 90% pay!!

 

[Shec]

Ridiculous.  Can we make parental benefits retroactive for those of us who never received it when our children were born?  :

Or maybe we can claim it back over 7 generations ?

 

[X-mo-1979]

haha!
I have to say parental leave is the best thing I have done so far my career.Not for my career...but hey its a bunch of time off...getting paid...doing what iwant with my family with no work intrusions.

If nothing else it's convincing me to have more children.If I have 3 more my career would be darn near over by the time I got back!

We have a crappy education plan (NCM),shotty VAC claims,but darn it parental is AWESOME!!!!!

Anyway I really don't know what day of the week this is...but I'm heading to ottawa.....Is it october yet? ;D

 

[Occam]

I have to admit that I'm a little shocked at the responses I've seen here.  I would've expected a decision like this to be welcomed by the military, as we're eligible for the top-up, making it much more likely that we (as a group) would take advantage of the benefit.

For CountDC:  Sure, you can take it for two periods of leave.  Just make sure your twins are born 12 months apart, or provide proof that you paid double your required EI contributions, as I'm assuming your wife doesn't work. 

Moe:  Why is it ridiculous?  That it took years of fighting for families to get Parental benefits?

 

[Kat Stevens]

So I guess the octo-mom and her hubby would be eligible for 4 years each based on this precedent?  Nice work if you can get it.

 

[vonGarvin]

Just like a few pennies of those kids will end up in your pockets in your pensionable years?

A MAJOR difference.  I've served the state, others have earned their pensions.  All this couple did was have twins.  Big friggin' deal.


This talks to how our society has changed, and in my opinion, not for the better. 

 

[PMedMoe]

Moe:  Why is it ridiculous?  That it took years of fighting for families to get Parental benefits?

No, not at all.  I think the benefits are great.  What's happened here now is that they've set a precedence and every new situation will have to be dealt with the same way. 

I have to admit, though, searched this and found that both parents are entitled to the same amount of parental leave anyway:

Both new parents have the right to take parental leave of up to 35 or 37 weeks of unpaid time off work.
Qualifying for Parental Leave

A new parent is entitled to parental leave whether he or she is a full-time, part-time, permanent or contract employee provided that the employee:

    * works for an employer that is covered by the ESA,
      and
    * was employed for at least 13 weeks before commencing the parental leave.

An employee does not have to actively work in the 13- week period preceding the start of the parental leave. The employee could be on layoff, vacation, sick leave or pregnancy leave for all or part of the 13-week qualifying period and still be entitled to parental leave. The ESA only requires the employee to have been employed by the employer for 13 weeks before he or she may commence a parental leave.

A "parent" includes:

    * a birth parent;
    * an adoptive parent (whether or not the adoption has been legally finalized); or
    * a person who is in a relationship of some permanence with a parent of the child and who plans on treating the child as his or her own. This includes same-sex couples.

http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/guide/guide_11.html

 

[GAP]

I think what most people object to is the EI system becoming a social program, rather than an insurance program.

This decision smacks of social engineering and entitlement based on perceived need.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Occam.

The key words in your post, as I saw it, we

*take advantage of*

Personally, I'd like to be able to sign a waiver not having to pay for EI off my pay, waiving my ability to ever claim it.  Why do I have to pay for something that will never benefit me?  I watched this system be abused and made a mockery of back home growing up.  Of all the $ the government takes from me, the EI deductions are the ones that I despise the most.

Seeing as the government and taxpayers aren't responsible for the birth of these twins, I doubt anyone will convince me that the government and taxpayers are the ones who should have to pay double benefits, etc to the parents.

More of our tax dollars that people will now get, and how can the government say no to anyone after saying yes once?  Then, more of our tax dollars will get lost in legal proceeding and all that crap.

Humbug I say.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

An Ottawa couple has successfully argued that both parents of twins should be able to receive Employment Insurance benefits for full parental leave.
The father of twin girls born in April convinced an Employment Insurance board that each parent should be able to claim benefits for one of their twins.

The decision overturned a previous decision denying the claim.

The ruling by an Employment Insurance Board of Referees applies only to the couple, Christian Martin and Paula Critchley, the board said.

Chair of the group Multiple Births Canada, Gail Moore, said the decision sets a precedent for parents of multiples births.

But, she said, EI officials aren't necessarily bound by the ruling in future cases.

Mainly because of the increased use of fertility drugs, multiple births have been soaring in Canada.

The group Multiple Births Canada has been lobbying for greater benefits for parents of multiple births.

And, just some information for those who don't know how EI appeals work...

http://www.ei.gc.ca/eng/referees.shtml

And...if Service Canada denies you EI, who is the Employment Insurance board in actuality??  Why, it is 3 members of the community.  :

And how will this decision likely impact people trying to milk the system in the future?
------------------
What is the Board of Referees?

The Board of Referees is an independent and impartial administrative body comprising three members of the community. The members of the Board of Referees are not government employees. They are knowledgeable about Employment Insurance legislation and are trained to examine your case in a fair manner.

The Board examines your case at a hearing. It examines all evidence that is provided, whether this evidence is in the appeal docket or given at the hearing.

The Board will base its decision on the Employment Insurance Act and Regulations and its finding of fact in the case before it.

To do this, the Board may rely on previous appealed cases to guide it in its decision.
For more information, consult the Board of Referees website.

 

[PMedMoe]

This part of the article was slightly disturbing, IMHO:

Mainly because of the increased use of fertility drugs, multiple births have been soaring in Canada.

The group Multiple Births Canada has been lobbying for greater benefits for parents of multiple births.

So people are going to strive for multiple births so that they can get more benefits?  Reminds me of the welfare Moms having more kids to get more money despite the fact that birth control medication is free to those on welfare.  :

More info about Multiple Births Canada:

http://www.multiplebirthscanada.org/english/index.php

http://www.multiplebirthscanada.org/english/documents/MBCApplaudsEIDecision-September2009_000.pdf

Quote from second link:

In light of the significant challenges of caring for multiple newborn babies at the same time, MBC requests the federal government officially change its benefits policy from a per pregnancy basis to a per child basis, and give full effect to the Board’s decision.

That's it.  When I get a new puppy, I want paid time off work to bond with it.  If my dog has seven puppies, I should be entitled to benefits for each one. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Moe,

You're right!  I'm going to Pet R Us right this second!  :blotto:

 

[vonGarvin]

I think what most people object to is the EI system becoming a social program, rather than an insurance program.

This decision smacks of social engineering and entitlement based on perceived need.

I agree 100%.

50 years ago, or so, our society was such that a single-income family was the norm, and that was all that was required.  Flash forward to now, and our society is such that a multi-income family is the requirement to have any half-decent standard of living.  Given that in most cases, both parents will have to work to maintain a certain standard of living, the thought of having more mouths to feed is perceived as a detriment.  So step in, Mr. State, and grant all sorts of benefits and child care agencies to raise our kids.  After all who needs kids?  This is just the latest.  I mean, think about it.  Check out the price of a single-family home in any Canadian city.  The prices are ridiculous.  How can a single-income family even think to afford a quarter-million dollar property?  Even if the single income is on the order of 50,000 dollars a year (which is no small amount)?  And of that money, how much is deducted for taxes and the like, to pay for such programs as state child care?  It's a vicious circle, and I don't see any way out of it. 

This decision is, in my opinion, just one more nail.

 

[Sub_Guy]

So what?

Do you guys honestly believe that people are going to try for multiple births so they can take a year or more off?  That logic makes no sense, you don't see people throwing themselves down stairs so they can get that parking spot close to the mall entrance (wheelchair).

The title of this thread should read "Re: Ottawa couple fighting for twin EI parental leaves and a few ARMY.ca members run for the Kleenex  :'("

 

[vonGarvin]

So what?

Re:read the posts.  It's a travesty and a waste of the intent of the system.  It wastes my tax money, that's why.  The fact that I pay taxes gives me the privilege to b*tch about it.  If you don't like that, you can run for your own facial tissue.