Pope considering changes in Vatican condom stance

[Oh No a Canadian]

from CTV

Pope Benedict says condom use may be justified in some specific cases, such as when a male prostitute is trying to prevent HIV infection, in a new interview that has the pontiff deviating from the Catholic Church's line on contraception.

While the Catholic Church is staunchly against artificial contraception, Benedict said condoms for male prostitutes may be justifiable "in the intention of reducing the risk of infection."

He also pointed out that condom use among prostitutes is "a first step toward moralization," and said condoms are "not really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection."

Benedict has long been known as a conservative interpreter of Church doctrine. He drew sharp rebukes from world leaders and health experts alike in 2009, when he told reporters while on a trip to Africa that condoms would only worsen the AIDS crisis on the continent.

Before becoming Pope, when he was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany, many of his countrymen considered him responsible for Vatican declarations prohibiting priests from counselling pregnant teenagers about their options.

Full Story:http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20101120/pope-condoms-101120/


(Moderator edit to less contentious and more accurate thread title.)

 

[TheHead]

 
Yeah I better not say that about that.

 

[Ascendant]

People still listen to what this clown and the Vatican have to say?

 

[vonGarvin]

People still listen to what this clown and the Vatican have to say?

I for one do.  Have a problem with that?  Then express your opinion (as you have) but I'll just point out a few facts:
From here:

Catholic Relief Services works in over 30 countries throughout Africa and strives to enhance human dignity, empower the people that it helps and strengthen and support partner organizations. CRS achieves this by working in the areas of food security, peace building, HIV and AIDS, civil society building, Emergency Response and health among others.

And they don't do that by handing out bibles and rosaries.  In Somalia, for example, they

(give) financial and technical assistance to a Caritas Somalia clinic in Baidoa that provides essential health care services free of charge to anyone in the region.

So, I would offer that instead of picking and choosing quotes out of context (eg: the pope didn't "okay" condoms for male prostitutes, he did point out that they "...may be justified in some specific cases, such as when a male prostitute is trying to prevent HIV infection..."), read a bit and find out for yourself.

Here is one place you can read more.

Anyway, have a great day.

 

[gun runner]

I cannot believe he is the Vicar of Christ on earth. This man is a lunatic! I mean really, only for male prostitutes, but not healthy normal Christians who have values that may include safe sex. In todays world we should be teaching our children how to stay safe, and yes that means condoms. I am a Christian, but not Catholic. My views are mine alone and I do not intend to offend others beliefs with this post. I merely cannot believe that after 2000 years this is the best they came up with. My :2c:.

 

[aesop081]

only for male prostitutes,

That is not what was said.

I merely cannot believe that after 2000 years this is the best they came up with

Hard to believe that at 39 years of age, you still could not read what was said properly.

 

[vonGarvin]

My :2c:.

You charged too much, and I want my money back.


Anyway, nobody is trying to convert you to Catholicism.  But at least read what he said.
The Pope said that condoms "...may be justified in some specific cases, such as when a male prostitute is trying to prevent HIV infection."
And you said:

I mean really, only for male prostitutes, but not healthy normal Christians who have values that may include safe sex.

In fact, His Holiness said that they may be justified, not that they are.  I think he's opening debate?  Just my thought.  Also, he used but one example, guys like this guy:

And best of all, have a great day.

 

[TheHead]

At least he didn't make the comment that using condoms in Africa would increase the HIV problem.

Oh wait....   

 

[Sapplicant]

The title of this thread is extremely misleading, and borderline offensive. Should we REALLY be putting words into the Pope's mouth?

Something along the lines of "Pope considering changes in Vatican condom stance" might be more appropriate, and a lot closer to the truth. My pair of pennies.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Religion LOL

 

[Michael OLeary]

Are you inferring that this is the only aid to Haiti by any organized religion, or is it the only picture you could find that satisfied an immature need to stir a pot?

For example:

CRWRC Raises $10 million for Haiti Earthquake Response

MAY 19, 2010—This week the Christian Reformed World Relief Committee (www.crwrc.org) topped the $10 million mark in giving for Haiti earthquake response efforts. The fund's total surpasses amounts donated to the organization for either the 2004 Asia Tsunami or Hurricane Katrina in 2005.

CRWRC, which has had a presence in Haiti for 20 years, began emergency aid in the first few days after the January 12 catastrophe trapped and killed thousands, and left two million people homeless.

Since the disaster occurred four months ago, CRWRC has provided emergency food, water, shelter tarps, and basic living supplies to earthquake survivors in Port au Prince and the Leogane region, the worst hit area outside the capital. The agency has also installed water systems, built latrines, and begun a tool lending center to help residents clear rubble for future reconstruction.

As the rainy season loomed, CRWRC began building transitional houses to protect homeless families from the weather over the next two to three years. The agency is also addressing permanent shelter needs with hurricane resistant construction. Other agencies of the Christian Reformed Church in North America, Christian Reformed World Missions and Back to God Hour Ministries International, also helped address immediate needs through local church partners.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Are you inferring that this is the only aid to Haiti by any organized religion, or is it the only picture you could find that satisfied an immature need to stir a pot?

This picture satisifies my opinion that religion is stupid and self-centered. Handing out bibles to starving (?) people....feeding their soul i guess.

I don't need to stir any pots cause they can stir themselves without any help.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I don't need to stir any pots cause they can stir themselves without any help.

Yup, that picture posted itself.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

:argument:

Everyone better get back on track, with reasonable and topical discussion. Leave your biases at the door. This is not a discussion for, or against, organised religion. Get off your soapboxes and put your prejudices in your pocket. It won't take much to lock a thread that people can't even read properly, and draw a civilized conclusion from, before they post some sort of inflammatory tangent.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[callsign]

from CTV

Full Story:http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20101120/pope-condoms-101120/


(Moderator edit to less contentious and more accurate thread title.)

I love how the Catholic Church loves to ignore the realities of human nature, but then again, most of these religions do anyway.

 

[vonGarvin]

I love how the Catholic Church loves to ignore the realities of human nature, but then again, most of these religions do anyway.

Actually, it embraces the realities of human nature on all levels: physical included.  But there are those who would pick and choose things that come out as Church doctrine, take it out of context, and then point their fingers.  I suppose their message of being responsible, controlling your urges and the like comes across somehow different.

Anyway, the "rest" of the message is quite simple (when it comes to sex).  Wait until you're married, and remain faithful to your spouse.  Simple, really.

Heck, even the Doctrine points out that yes, Jesus did "hang out" with criminals, prostitutes, etc.  Not to do crimes with them, or to turn tricks, but rather to turn their lives around.

Anyway, nobody is asking you to join the Church.  But at least please inform yourself before making blatant statements.  Opinion is one thing, but untrue statements are another. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

The problem with Church+condoms/views on contraception is that there are two very polar sides.

How I see it, on one you have very pragmatic people.  Condoms means less unwanted pregnancies. Less STDs. 

The other side are taught to believe that condoms (for example) is basically going against Gods will.  It's up to God to decide who gets pregnant and who doesn't.  Possibly, and I'm guessing at opinions  here, condoms are a way for homosexuals (who are sinners and going to hell) to "beat the system" and avoid getting aids, STDs etc.. Lots of people feel that homosexuals getting aids is some kind of Divine punishment- and that's not just bible thumpers from t he deep south. I was surprised to hear my fun loving uncle express this opinion a few weeks ago. Last guy on earth you'd expect to hear that from.

Non religious people can't fathom how condoms would be a bad thing and the religious (well some not all of course) see it about morality and spiritual good or evil.

 

[vonGarvin]

Not quite, Grimaldus
I see myself as pragmatic, and it's not about "condom/no condom", it's about responsible behaviour.  Even if condoms are used effectively, and all that, there is much more potential for harm (psychological, physical, etc) from irresponsible sexual behaviour (which in itself is a debatable point), than there is in celibacy.  I'm not going to stand here and pretend that I've never used a condom, or that I follow Church Doctrine in everything I do.  But they do have a point.
They aren't saying that "sex is evil" any more than they are saying that "alcohol is evil".  Heck, alcohol is used in our religious practices!  It's about moderation in pretty well everything.  Of the seven deadly sins, think "gluttony" (vice lust).  We have to eat, for example, but it's not necessary and it's excessive and unhealthy to consume say 6000 calories a day.

So, we're left with a dilemma: one of our basic human needs (not wants) is sexual gratification.  But irrespective of that, the main physical purpose of sex is conception.  That doesn't mean we need to pump out babies every time we have sex, because there are some very important secondary purposes of sex, not the least of which is our need (not want) for love.  I suppose the point on condoms, etc, is frowned upon because it is an attempt to avoid the main reason why we have sex.

As for the consequences of irresponsible sexual activity, they are many, but there are consequences for pretty well any irresponsible behaviour (think: excessive drinking).  But I must echo your point about what some people say about AIDS is "God's revenge on homosexuals" and that they are "all going to hell".  Heck, every time I go to mass I hear about how we are all sinners, but that's ok, because that's who we are.  It's a constant struggle to live one's life virtuously, and I just wish that people would realise that they can't "be hatin'" all the time.

Anyway, I don't see it as "smart" people on one side and "blind" on the other.  I don't see it as a moral issue, but about responsibility and responsible behaviour.  Condoms may block conception, but they can't block infidelity, false love, and subjecting ourselves to our primal needs at the expense of others, thinking that "it's ok, everyone's doing it".

Anyway, I'm not even sure if I'm making sense here, but it's good to see some rational discussion in here for a change, vice stuff like "Catholics suck".  (which is irony is itself, no?  >)

 

[mariomike]

Vatican City issued a statement on the topic yesterday.
"VATICAN CITY — The Vatican on Sunday cautioned that there is nothing “revolutionary” in Pope Benedict XVI’s startling assertion that condom use in exceptional circumstances can be a responsible act in the fight against the spread of HIV.":
http://news.therecord.com/article/817080

 

[mariomike]

"VATICAN CITY -- A Vatican insider says Pope Benedict XVI is seeking to "kick-start a debate" with his suggestion that using condoms could be acceptable in some cases as a means of fighting AIDS.":
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/22/AR2010112203094.html

"One Vatican official said Monday he believes the pope just "decided to do it" and get a debate going."