Private Armies & PMCs on the battlefield and on peace operations.

[the patriot]

Hello,

It seems that the trend is moving towards the privitization of "war". Listed under Military Information of User Submitted Links are some sites of Private Military Companies. What is actually happening is that Governments and the UN alike are contracting out these companies so that their armies are not responsible for things if they go badly during a mission (for example Somalia). How do you feel about this trend?!

-the patriot-

 

[Bloggins]

Hmm, ‘scuse my ignorance, but could you give a couple of examples of govt‘s/UN contracting out to private firms for things other than support services?

And if anyone thinks that hiring a contractor is going to absolve them of responsibility if the contractor screws up... they have another think coming. Can you just imagine if it had been a bunch of mercs under contract to DND who pulled off all the nonsense in Somalia instead of the CAR? Man, then we would have seen some heads roll!

 

[Harry]

Yes the facts generally are there. Keep in mind, inclusive of support functions, there are many aspects of military operations that we may not necessarily consider HARD military, but they are key to successful operational function and accomplishment that are contracted out and done so successfully. Vinnell Corp is an example; they do a lot of overseas work for the US in the Gulf region and Middle East, such as Turkey. We have Bombardier and ATCO Frontec.
www.vinnell.com

Companies such as MPRI have provided direct military contract services for the US in the Balkans training certain military forces there.
http://www.mpri.com/channels/home.html

Another company that provides discrete support to the US abroad is Dyncorp, read between the lines if you have to.
http://www.dyncorp.com/areas/index.htm

For your reading pleasure you can explore the following link:
http://free.freespeech.org/napalm74/main.html

An area that many overlook is air operations. This is considered a prime military function; the CF has on numerous occasions used heavy lift from other militaries and private firms. The United Nations does this as well, especially within Mission Areas. Private contract air operations are the buzz of the day. Rarely do you see military airlift in support of missions, unless the tasked nation provides their own, usually in support of their contingent.

There are numerous reports or purporting of private firms out there providing military contract services to the UN and in support of various national government foreign ventures.

Some are true many are not. But this move is based upon economic reasons, not some underlying motive. Standing military forces are not cheap and if you only need this service once in a blue moon, why not contract someone. Especially if that lucrative diamond interest, oh sorry, I digress.

There is a lot of good info out there, and if you wish to dig deeper, have fun.

 

[Grunt031]

Those Croatians that 2PPCLI tangled with in the Medak Pocket were trained and advised by MPRI, of which a key member was General (Ret.) Carl Vuono, former US Army Chief of Staff.

About reading between the lines, just check out one of the shell companies of this DynCorp at http://www.dynmeridian.com/

Although this invasion by big business is kinda spooky, it is nothing new. Selling ones military services is the second oldest profession in the book, next to selling ones body. Hell, the Greek city states frequently hired cavalry, archers, and slingers from nearby lands to help support their citizen armies.

 

[the patriot]

Did some further digging and discovered an interesting site. I‘ve come across the site of Armet Armored Vehicles. They make different levels of ballistically shielded vehicles here in Canada. It is my understanding that JTF-2 has used some of their products and furthermore, that Private Military Companies are procuring these vehicles for their operations as well. Here‘s the link below.
http://www.aavi.com

-the patriot-

 

[the patriot]

....... did some deeper digging and found a few more companies of interest.

This people are Canadian based and do everything from Close Protection to consulting work for foreign militaries:
Globe Risk Holdings

An extremely similar company with an international client base: Armor Group

These people are extremely professional, and know what they are doing: Military Executives For Hire

Apparently, quite a few of these companies in the field are hiring former Candian Armed Forces members.

-the patriot-

 

[the patriot]

For those capable of engaging in intelligent discourse, I have a paper that I will link below all about The Medak Pocket. It should shed some further light on Canadian involvement in the Balkans and what we were up against with MPRI.

The Medak Pocket

-the patriot-

 

[centurion]

While we‘re looking at the various aspects of peacekeepers, other than from the jaundiced eye of the Canadian media and the current political hacks in uniform, located at the puzzle palace on Col Bye Dr and the dweeb lemmings at Parlimentl Hill, here‘s a good one. This lengthy tome is a soldier‘s diary from the Airborne in Somolia. It comes from the other commando unit stationed there that was not involved in the overblown fiasco that has, totally and to the detriment of all personnel in uniform, painted us with a wide brush of loathing from the country we‘re sworn to gladly defend. It cuts straight to the chase and pulls no punches. It should be required reading for every journalism class in Canada to prove to the air conditioned remfs at CBC that there are two sides to every story. And their job is to report the news not to embellish, invent or slant it to curry favour and gain grants from the current politicos in Ottawa. Book mark it and go back to it in pieces so it can be appreciated, this guy should publish.

web page

 

[Andrew]

I apologize for bringing up an old forum but was just reading through it and for anyone who is interested there is a book out it‘s called "Fortune‘s Warriors" by James R. Davis. (author of "The Sharp End- a canadian soldiers story) He also works or used to work for Globe Risk(a private security advisor company).

The book looks at what is exactly considered a mercinary, and explains alot about the privatization of military‘s and what there roles are in different countries like Sierra Lione ect ect...

Andrew

The book is actually amazing some of the stuff it

 

[Jarnhamar]

While watching the Manchurian candidate, a news broadcast made a comment in the backround which stuck with me and i found intersting.

This Manchurian company was using (or making?) a private army to help relieve American troops abroad in the war on terror.

Do you think this is a possibility for the near future?   I mean Iraq and Afghanistan are full of "private security" companies with tons and tons of workers. Many of which are ex military.   Could these companies start to make private armies to help relieved exhausted and over worked allied soldiers?   These companies have the money for it and I'm sure they can find "recruits"

Now by armies i mean groups of guys from company to battalion sized (or larger) that are equipped with serious military hardware and their trained to act and fight like an actual military formation. Some of these companies already have helicopters and armored vehicles right?   if one of these companies had a serious enough force maybe the US government would contract them out for protecting convoys or small towns and cities?   (Maybe they are already doing this heh)
Just something that got me wondering how far privatization will go.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Oh, I think you will see more and more of this as a way to get around the media showing the young soldiers coming home in a box.
Somehow the headline " Mercenary Killed" just won't sensationalize enough for their appetite.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I suppose there is a supply and demand market for such enterprises. It just seems off base in today's world, but then again the original RN were in fact Crown contracted "privateers." Do we really want to devolve to that level?  

 

[aesop081]

Oh, I think you will see more and more of this as a way to get around the media showing the young soldiers coming home in a box.
Somehow the headline " Mercenary Killed" just won't sensationalize enough for their appetite.

I can see it comming but do we realy want armed forces whos loyalties and motivation are, shall i say, questionable ( i.e. money) ??

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

No, we do not, but....... :-[

 

[George Wallace]

What you just described has already existed for thousands of years.  Remember the movies WILD GEESE and perhaps DARK UNDER THE SUN?  These guys were fictional accounts of actual people and events.  Mercenaries have existed since the dawn of civilization and before.  Companies such as Executive Outcomes have been in Africa and Asia for decades.  Pick up a copy of Soldier of Fortune and look at the 'classified ads'.  Those are real.

GW

 

[aesop081]

No, we do not, but....... :-[

I would see it as ASD gonne too far myself.  Why not use the money to hire more soldiers for the "real" armed forces.........

 

[gnplummer421]

Given the amount of money these guys are apparently offering in these "Security firms" the line up of intersted individuals will be long...but as someone pointed out, will the money factor interfere with the code of honour and integrity that most professional soldiers have.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I would see it as ASD gonne too far myself.  Why not use the money to hire more soldiers for the "real" armed forces.........

If you are the one they are shooting at, they are "real" armed forces. War making would no longer be an extension of politics, it would be an extension of economics. Quite a paradigm shift, maybe its already happened. Profit taking has no place on the battlefield in the 21st century. Profits are addictive and generally shareholder driven and bank financed. We have enough of that in the world right now without privatizing the battlefield.   What price is to be paid for an increase in profits?    

 

[aesop081]

If you are the one they are shooting at, they are "real" armed forces. War making would no longer be an extension of politics, it would be an extension of economics. Quite a paradigm shift, maybe its already happened. Profit taking has no place on the battlefield in the 21st century. Profits are addictive and generally shareholder driven and bank financed. We have enough of that in the world right now without privatizing the battlefield.   What price is to be paid for an increase in profits?    

I was not using the word "real" in that sense......having been shot at a few times myself, i know quite well how "real" it is.  I agree with you that profiteering has no place on the battlefield, that leads to wars with no "just" aim.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I can see it comming but do we realy want armed forces whos loyalties and motivation are, shall i say, questionable ( i.e. money) ??

We are seeing american soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanastan taking leave of the army and heading over as civilian contractors. I've read a few articles whre our Canadian JTF are suposidly quiting the CF and heading over to these companies as civilian contractors.

I realise mercenaries have been around as long as we've had soldiers probably. I was curious about the possibilities of large forces of mercenaries being used by the US government or US government friendly organiations to perform what are traditionally Military operations. Possibly equipment with armored vehicles, maybe even something crazy like artillery.

For example, if the US army is planning on taking the town of "name" and removing all the terrorists from it, instead of using  3000 marines, 1500 marines would be used in conjunction with 2000 "soldiers"/contractors from "name" organization which will be paid X million dollars for the "contract".

In the larger scale of things, US forces would completly move out of a specific area (to be used elsewhere) where a contract is given to a company to hold and secure a city including conducting patrols and other traditionally army tasks. ie driving around in armored humvee's or conducting foot patrols.

Money spent on civilian armies means less operations for american soldiers, less urgent need of body/vehicle armor (due to less demand), less american soldiers in body bags being sent home.  If X company sends their civilian soldiers to help liberate and secure X town, then that company gets first dibs on reconstruction deals.