PT Standards on BMQs Today

[CdnGalaGal]

Though it's only been a few years since I have done my BRT, I'm wondering just how much PT on course has changed... Is it really that much less challenging than previous (recent) years? I've been listening to some recruits fresh off their BMQs who were surprised at how easy PT was.

Are the standards on Reg force BMQs and Reserve BMQs the same?

And on another note, what were some fun but challenging PT sessions that you have experienced? Eventually, when I teach a BMQ, I'd like to lead something more than just a run, march, or circuit training... So, ideas are appreciated 

 

[Scott]

My staff used to run us on the walking paths by the Rec center in Gagetown (Close to M Lines) the paths, in 1997, were about 5 km long if you took the long route and along the way there were several workout stations suck as monkey bars, chin up bars, benches for raised pushups and stands for angled sit ups. A full run of that circuit was a good workout for me and I always liked running it because of the scenery and the like, towards the south end of the circuit was the airfield and it was always cool as a QL2 soldier to see the Griffons coming and going.

When we used to do PT on the trails we'd do rifle PT, I am sure that every QL2 qualified person here has some horror story about rifle PT. I found it fun but challenging. I have the guys where I work now do the same stuff but with firefighting tools, it's a blast for us and builds team unity, encouraging others.

I can't say how much things have changed from then until now but I am sure that they have. Above was what I liked.

 

[Da_man]

The lieutenant that gave us PT at my BMQ was one hell of a runner 

 

[Sig_Des]

CJ, if you want to, refer to this thread to see how much things have changed

http://army.ca/forums/threads/18234.0.html

a lot. I just did my comm res BMQ/SQ this summer, and I was somewhat disapointed in the physical requirements

 

[CdnGalaGal]

CJ, if you want to, refer to this thread to see how much things have changed

http://army.ca/forums/threads/18234.0.html

a lot. I just did my comm res BMQ/SQ this summer, and I was somewhat disapointed in the physical requirements

Good thread, Mopo. My questions regarding BMQ PT standards have been answered, and more fully than I had first expected (especially since Shilo is where I'd end up).

And to the last part of my first post, what did you find to be fun but CHALLENGING PT?

Oh, and TR, since you taught MY basic, any new tricks to be learned from YOU, Old Dog?   ;D

 

[pbi]

This Reserve PT thing is very interesting to me, because I see two distinct schools of thought on the subject within the same Army Reserve community.

PT standards in the Reserve, and the requirement for a Reservist to stay fit on their own (just as, for example, a volunteer firefighter must stay fit on their own) have been at the centre of a long, drawn out controversy for years now. Although in the last two years I have heard two separate DJA opinions stating that Reservists doing PT on their own time can be considered "on duty" for the purposes of injury/pension providing the training is authorized by the CO, I still detect resistance to the idea, but mainly amongst more senior Reservists. I have the feeling that amongst these folks there is a suspicion of the entire idea of having a Reserve fitness requirement at all, despite the fact that I know several senior Res (up to BGen) who are quite fit and have personal PT programs.Perhaps some more senior folk regard PT standards as just another training burden or worse, as a way of getting rid of people.

On the other hand, younger Res soldiers, especially recruits, seem to expect and want demanding PT. I don't know how many times now I've heard about the extreme dissatisfaction of recruits (and often, their instructors) that PT is either absent altogether or so watered down as to be pointless. These folks, it seems to me, would like more PT and would willingly do it on their own. Despite this apparent desire, every year we lose some candidates from the more physically demanding Army leadership courses because, despite all kinds of warning and encouragement, some of these young people do nothing to get themselves in shape.

Am I right here? Is there a division within the Army Reserve over the issue of PT/PT standards? I invite our many Reserve friends (of any rank) to chime in here. Cheers.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

Nothing beats a good day of hill training.....

 

[Lost_Warrior]

It all depends on what kind of instructors you have.  Some people will say PT is a joke, and others will say it's challenging.  My BMQ, my PT was a joke.  A few push ups/sit ups, and a small run.  Usually about 2-3km.

My SQ on the other hand was much harder.  Nearly all our instructors were these "hard as nails infantry grunts" and the more we suffered, the better they felt.  We ended up having nearly 1/3 of our platoon in the MIR, exempt from PT by the end of that course.

My DP1 though, was rather easy.  They would mix it up with a 5k run, a 5k ruck march, circuit training, and a couple of times we did the obstacle course.  It wasn't as bad as the SQ PT, but it was a variety, which made it more interesting.

 

[Gayson]

During my summer we hit the obstacle course a few times.  Racing 2 platoons against eachother always has a good PT value, especially when you add additional laps.  I would love to see future recruits go through these maybe once a week along with their normal PT.

 

[LCISTech227]

First off, I'm going to apologize in advance for this reply, you'll understand why after you read it.

I think because I did a component transfer from the reserves to the regs I have a unique perspective on this subject.  That being said it was always a point that disgusted me while I was in the reserves.  I think the CF could do well at putting a policy in place that makes the CF EXPRES test mandatory across the board, including the reserves.  Unfortunately, with things the way they are you don't usually have to do one unless you go on course, or deployment.  Which means that the people who aren't interested in doing either of these fall through the cracks.

In my opinion the forces as a whole could do very well at cutting the dead weight.  I remember when I was on my JLC/JNCO in Petawawa - where I had the crap kicked out of me physically, due to the rigors of the PT, section attacks, withdrawals, etc.- my section commander said something to us that I've remembered and I believe to be more true then anything else I've learned in the Forces: "It's the fit soldier that wins the battle".  Now, a lot of people are going to chime in and say well I know so and so, and they look overweight but can ruck for ever and can smoke me in a run, this isn't regarding them, this is regarding the people who are so grossly out of shape that affects me, and makes everyone around them have to do more work to take up their slack.

I also believe that the CF EXPRES test should be standardized, by this I mean that there should be one standard and that's it (everyone does the same amount of pushups, situps and run). This different standards stuff is crap,  I mean just cause your over 35 doesn't mean you don't have to work as hard as someone who is 25... I mean how does this make sense to anyone. RHIP does not apply to physical fitness.

As a soldier (everyone in the forces is a soldier regardless of trade) it is your responsibility to be physically fit, and if you're not, you shouldn't be in the forces, enough said.

Cheers,

 

[sdimock]

Have you seen/heard about the "fit to fight" program and if so what do you think?

 

[dutchie]

The biggest issue I see in IRT PT, Physical Fitness, and the Reserves is control. It's pretty tough to ensure everyone is doing daily (or at least regular) PT when you only see them every thursday night and one ex a month. Our unit does an annual PT test, and soldiers who fail are required to retest, and in theory, are put on Counselling & Probation upon second failure. But the problem is that not everyone shows up for the PT test. Res pers have other lives, and hence, often have legitimate reasons for being absent. You can't run 14 Pt tests to get everyone tested, as you wouldn't have the time for real training if you did.

The way you can somewhat make up for this lack of control over what the soldier does (or doesn't do) in his/her own time is by assuming they are fit, and train them accordingly. Make the training physically demanding, and come down hard on those that can't cut it. Ex's are fun when you are in shape, but pretty miserable if you aren't. Most would either get in shape, find a way to scive out of the tough ex's, or quit. We should be hammering those that consistantly fail or avoid intense physical training.

 

[Northern Touch]

Am I right here? Is there a division within the Army Reserve over the issue of PT/PT standards? I invite our many Reserve friends (of any rank) to chime in here. Cheers.

PBI, after comming of BMQ/SQ this summer, I think it would be safe to say that there is an issue of PT and PT standards in the reserves.  Many of the people on my course wished we had more PT.  Our runs weren't extremely long, maybe 4km and the same goes wiht our ruck marchs.  There were only 2 or 3 days I can remember where the PT challanged me, and it was mostly circuit training PT.  There was ONE real challenging run where we lost 17 recruits because we hit a hill or two and that caused a lot of the weaker ones to fall out.  I believe its all about keeping the nuumbers up.  Our Lt. even mentioned to us that he is supposed to keep at least 90% of the platoon with him on runs.  I can't remember the number, but I'm posative it was high because I remember thinking "what the hell".

Another problem about PT on course is there isn't enough designated time for it.  There is only an hour slot for PT and you can only do as much PT in that time as you can.  I personally, and many people in my section wished we could train for the BFT and do it at the end of SQ but the bottom line is, only those of us with the heart would have been able to make it, because there simply wasn't enough time to actualyl train up to that standard.  I feel now like i have to re-build my endurance because it actually went down while I was on course.

I have seen instructors who I respect very much, have trouble with push ups.  I had an instructor just come off his PLQ and claim they were running in the sand at Pet in boots, and couldnt understand why we werent supposed to run in boots anymore.  Yet, I get back to my unit and find out that this instructor didn't even do the final PT evaluation for the PLQ (from someone who was on course with him) because his blood pressure would be too high and it was a hazard to his health.  He wasn't the smallest of guys either.

There are many solutions to this problem, but its hard to make it happen in the reserve world.  I think the express test is a great idea, but then what do you do with those that fail?  I personally dont want to train beside an unfit person because being unfit to me is being unmotivated since a soldier must be fit to fight.  In the end, it comes down to the soldier himself, and if he is willing to do the PT on his time, and if the CF is willing to enforce a PT standard.

There are those reserves who LOVE PT and there are those who HATE it.
Until the CF is willing to do somethign about it, I'm sure the PT will continue to go down hill in the reserve unless they keep recruiting more and more self motivating troops.

 

[ackland]

Good thread, Mopo. My questions regarding BMQ PT standards have been answered, and more fully than I had first expected (especially since Shilo is where I'd end up).

And to the last part of my first post, what did you find to be fun but CHALLENGING PT?

Oh, and TR, since you taught MY basic, any new tricks to be learned from YOU, Old Dog?   ;D

Thanks for holding me in such high requard. Well the one thing I can sugest is if  you have a sick lame and lazy course O don't let them have anything to do with PT. I don't know if you remember a certain female officer on your 13k march who was so out of shape she kept getting on and off the safety vehicle and was always falling behind her troops on the march.

also stay fit yourself. If you find out you will be teaching on a course start to train for it. You will be in better shape than most of your candidates if you build up fo rlike a month before hand.

I'll PM you on some other great cardio exersises. >

 

[GINge!]

Have you seen/heard about the "fit to fight" program and if so what do you think?

You mean the Army Fitness Manual? Its online somewhere (maybe LFDTS site?)

It was a wake up call for me. I was on it for 4 months and still am not even at Level 2, though I've never had a prob doing the BFT in 2 hours or less. It is a good book though, whoever wrote it deserves credit for not watering the standards down and bringing a good balance of strength and CV endurance to the "test". Its given me something to strive for as I cross into my mid-30's. Also, the book is written in a tone (if you can call it that) that I like,its very encouraging. I think soldiers who are at Level 4 in all categories are really athletes, definitely light infantry / SF material fitness-wise.

 

[jfladeroute]

You mean the Army Fitness Manual? Its online somewhere (maybe LFDTS site?)

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/AEL/PUBS/300-008/B-GL-382/003/PT-001/B-GL-382-003-PT-001.pdf

 

[sdimock]

That's the one, our unit (44th) has issued one to each soldier and we are being encouraged by the leadership to use it.

We just stated doing an assessment of one or more of the checks every garrison night (5 Km tonight), and our progress will be checked on a regular basis (annually?).

As a slim 43 year old I'm averaging in at the Level 1,2 range. My cardio is a little low (11:41 on the 2.4 Km) but my larger need is to build more strength up (30 situps, 15 squats w 60kg, 12 reps on bench with 55kg).

I'm not sure how long it's been out and was wondering if anyone has experience doing it?

 

[Hunter]

I found the PT on my BMQ and SQ to be pretty easy.  The best pt I've had on course so far was this year's QL3 Med-A Central at Connaught.  I would have liked to see longer/tougher pt workouts.