Radical posters worry groups

[aluc]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1155161413962&call_pageid=970599119419



Radical posters worry groups
Aug. 10, 2006. 01:00 AM
SURYA BHATTACHARYA
STAFF REPORTER

Members of Toronto's Islamic community are expressing concern that posters of the hardline leaders of Iran and Hezbollah, displayed at recent protests here, are in danger of radicalizing the marches.

The posters, with photographs of Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah, began appearing last month at weekend demonstrations sponsored by several organizations, including the Canadian Arab Federation, the Muslim United Group and the Canadian Peace Alliance.

Organizations like B'nai Brith Canada have called on the government and police to crack down on what they see as "pro-Hezbollah" demonstrations.

"Hezbollah flags in rallies is a symbol of a terrorist entity," said Frank Dimant, vice-president of B'nai Brith Canada. "These rallies are pro-terrorist and are symbols of terrorism. They have no place in this country."

Dimant added he had recently observed Hezbollah flags at rallies in Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa.

"People are expressing concern," said Ali Mallah, vice-president of the Canadian Arab Federation, noting the demonstrations were focused on condemning violence against civilians in Lebanon and Palestine.

"It's hard to control crowds of thousands of people," he said, adding, "but I am not in the business of telling people what to do."

Still, Mallah said, he doesn't want the images to become a distraction. "Our coalition is made up of several different organizations, and we will not waste time debating this," he said. More than 10,000 people participated in the July 22 and July 29 marches on the Israeli and U.S. consulates in Toronto. Spotted among the many posters of the deaths and damage wrought by Israeli bombing were about a dozen large poster-photos of Hezbollah's Nasrallah, whose organization is banned in Canada.

"It's hard to control crowds of thousands of people," he said, adding, "but I am not in the business of telling people what to do."

Still, Mallah said, he doesn't want the images to become a distraction. "Our coalition is made up of several different organizations, and we will not waste time debating this," he said. More than 10,000 people participated in the July 22 and July 29 marches on the Israeli and U.S. consulates in Toronto. Spotted among the many posters of the deaths and damage wrought by Israeli bombing were about a dozen large poster-photos of Hezbollah's Nasrallah, whose organization is banned in Canada.

It is exactly this type of attitude by leaders of these organisations  that make me wonder if they are really trying to root out terrorism within their respective Muslim communities. The response Mallah has issued in this article is appalling. As the leader of the CAF, he should be very concerned. The "leaders" of these organisations are not doing enough (in the public eye at least) to show that they are genuinely concerned about homegrown terrorism in the Western democracies they have chosen to adopt as their new home. This type of fragmented, or factional organisation of Muslim/Arab groups reeks of the factionalism that has plagued the Middle East for years.

Yes ....this issue must be debated, and it must be dealt with accordingly from within the Arab/Muslim community itself.  "well, we all belong to hundreds of different groups who can't agree on anything except the death of Israel, so It's not my problem. As the leader of a predominate Muslim organisation , what would you like me to do ? How do you expect me, as a leader, to actually lead?" (note sarcasm)  This bullshit has to stop. This may be an inappropriate comparison..... but what is the difference between large groups of demonstrators ( terrorist supporters) carrying terrorist flags and signs (who advocate the destruction of Israel) , and neo Nazi skin heads marching down the street chanting death to the Jews...hail fuhrer? There is no difference  IMHO! We don't stand for the Nazi bullshit here, but we'll stand by and accept pro terror rallies in our own towns and cities? Shame on these "organisations", and shame on Mallah for not giving a rats ass.

 

[1feral1]

This is the way of things to come, and it will get worse.

Back in Australia where these minorities have built up strong power bases in some localities, and they rule the 'peaceful' marches. In the past in Sydney, over $1,000,000 in damages alone in just one 'peaceful' march alone.

Yes, I am concerned what type of radicals are in our own countries, and one day, we'll here it on the news of a incident which many think could not happen on our own soil.

We're in for a long haul, and our countries have changed forever.

Regards,

Wes

 

[Blakey]

"People are expressing concern," said Ali Mallah, vice-president of the Canadian Arab Federation

By supporting Terrorist Organizations??!!  :rage:

Car adorned with portraits of Hezbollah leader Sayyed Nasrallah and insignia of the Canada-designated terrorist organization

Demonstrator holds sign with Hezbollah insignia. Minutes later, the insignia had been removed from the sign.

Oh, and here's the kicker!

A small group of 6 Canadian Lebanese unfolded banners and held signs calling for peace and friendship between the peoples of Lebanon and Israel. Several outraged men confronted the small group pushing and shoving the young women. Several of their signs were destroyed, while other demonstrators said no peace is possible with that “damned people” (Jews) and accused the group of being bought by the “Jews’ money”. The group finally had to leave the demonstration site. Police was nowhere to be seen.

Pro-peace demonstrators being insulted and told to leave

In short: IMO, if you are intent on supporting Terrorist organizations, GET THE HELL OUT OF CANADA!.

Edited to add source link: http://www.judeoscope.ca/article.php3?id_article=0421

 

[aluc]

The simple fact that we , as a society, allow things like this to go by the wayside so often that it cannot be corrected when the shit hits the fan. We allow it  (under the guise of human rights...etc , no doubt) , we tolerate it, thinking we are so superior because we tolerate everything, even though we know it's wrong.  We have given an inch....and they're taking miles. And before you know it, we're into our elbows in crap that our society has fostered and encouraged.  OK I'm ranting now......time for a time out. :-\


By the way...that's a nice Buick....how dare they drive a car made in the evil empire by evil, baby eating, American and Canadian autoworkers.  Wait...I guess the flags draped on it will cleanse the evil Buick of its evilness....muuuhahaha. Or maybe the flags are to disguise it when the evil Buick breaks down for the tenth and final time, and is sent to the afterlife. This way Allah  will not know it's an evil American car, and the evil Buick will receive 17 free oil changes --synthetic of course.

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

We can say, "get out if you do this or that", but the simple fact is we as a nation have created the ability for these people to exist and do what they wish.  Being complacent, turning a blind eye and not wanting to step on anyone's toes have allowed things like this to continue.

The only way things like this are going to stop is if Canada as a whole stands up and says enough is enough.  We can't just sit from the sidelines thinking nothing will happen to us, or that they're within their rights to demonstrate in such a fashion.  When they're demonstrating to support a terrorist organisation, they've crossed a line.  When those that are being peaceful and simply professing their views are bullied or berated, then a line has been crossed and those people need to be reigned in.  If we don't wake up and start doing something about such things, we're not that far away from having riots like France or heaven forbid down the road a civil war of sorts.  We can no longer be naive and think everyone loves Canada.  This is a different discussion for a different thread, but I'm quite certain there are many Canadians that are simply here for the money, health care and a safe haven to do what they wish with no love or patriotic attachment to Canada or our nations values.

/end rant

 

[Blakey]

^^Agreed

 

[scm77]

Figured this would fit in this thread. 


Israeli ambassador denounces MPs for marching 'under Hezbollah flag'
Envoy grateful Harper supports his country's right of self-defence

Mike Blanchfield, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Thursday, August 10, 2006

Israel's ambassador to Canada has denounced federal Liberals, Bloc Quebecois and other Quebec politicians for taking part in a weekend pro-Lebanese rally in Montreal and aligning themselves with what he described as "incited" Muslims who have taken over Canadian streets.

"We're seeing the leaders of opposition parties marching in Montreal under Hezbollah flags -- Hezbollah, which is an organization, a terrorist organization that's been outlawed by Canadian law," Alan Baker, Israel's envoy to Canada, said at a press conference yesterday on Parliament Hill.

"Any opposition party that expresses surprise at the fact that Canada, a democratic country, is supporting the right of another democratic country to defend itself really doesn't understand where they're coming from."

Mr. Baker also expressed gratitude for the pro-Israeli stand of Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper since the start of Israel's attacks on Lebanon nearly a month ago, designed to destroy the Hezbollah terrorist organization based there.

"When faced with this type of barrage from the media community, from the streets, from the incited groups of Muslims that are running around the streets on the weekends, it's so refreshing and positive to see ... that the Canadian government supports Israel's right to defend itself against terrorism," he said.

Mr. Baker's remarks came at a press conference that was billed as a religious plea for peace, but quickly became a thinly veiled attack on Canadian political opponents of the Conservative government in Ottawa.

Mr. Baker's remarks followed a series of demonstrations in Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa on Sunday in support of Lebanon.

They were Canada's contribution to a day of similar protests around the world.

However, the Montreal event has been described as being anti-Israeli in tone, with Hezbollah flags on display, and some demonstrators chanting support for the organization, which calls for the destruction of Israel and is banned by the Canadian government.

Politicians attending the Montreal rally included Liberal MP Denis Coderre, who represents a downtown Montreal riding and is a supporter of Liberal leadership contender Michael Ignatieff, as well as Bloc Quebecois leader Gilles Duceppe and Parti Quebecois leader Andre Boisclair.

Members of the Liberals, NDP and Bloc have also been critical of the Harper government's handling of the Israeli-Lebanese crisis.

Mr. Baker said it is unfair that Israel has taken so much "flak" from United Nations figures, including Canadian-born human rights chief Louise Arbour, for inflicting civilian casualties on Lebanon.

He said the Israeli Defence Force is taking all necessary precautions to limit civilian casualties.

Frank Dimant, vice-president of B'Nai Brith Canada, said his group is calling on police across the country to clamp down on pro-Hezbollah demonstrations.

Standing next to Mr. Baker at the same press conference, Mr. Dimant said his group is negotiating with Canadian police forces and the federal government "to ensure that the Hezbollah manifestations on the streets of Canada will not endure."

Charles McVety, president of the Canada Christian College, joined his two Jewish counterparts in calling for a national day of day of prayer on Aug. 20 to support Israel and a call for peace in the Middle East.

"It is impossible to say that I am a Christian and not love the Jewish people," said Mr. McVety, who is also the leader of Christians United for Israel (Canada), an offshoot of an American organization whose membership includes the conservative evangelists, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.
© The Ottawa Citizen 2006

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=1fe37eb3-0908-4dc3-99fb-c076cea69e17&p=2

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

That fits in with this discussion as well http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/48639.0.html

We're going down a very slippery slope, and the next 10 years are going to prove to be critical in what the next 100 years is like.  I plan on one day having children, but I fear what kind of a nation they are going to be born and raised in.

 

[Blakey]

Photo's for Scotty's post.

Françoise David (first behind child) and Louise Harel (on David’s left)

Leader of the provincial opposition Louise Harel (Parti Québécois) and Leader of the new leftist party Québec Solidaire Françoise David both denounced Israel’s “transgression” of Lebanese sovereignty and the Canadian government’s support for Israel’s right to self-defence. Harel said “Mr. Harper, we will not be enlisted with the hawks. We want nothing of your alliance with Bush and Blair.” Bloc Québécois MP (Ahuntsic) Maria Mourani (not pictured), who also addressed the crowd, declared to tremendous applause that Israel was not waging war solely against Hezbollah, but against all Lebanese.

 

[aluc]

We can say, "get out if you do this or that", but the simple fact is we as a nation have created the ability for these people to exist and do what they wish.  Being complacent, turning a blind eye and not wanting to step on anyone's toes have allowed things like this to continue.

The group finally had to leave the demonstration site. Police was nowhere to be seen.

With this complacent  half assed  attitude our governments have addopted in the past , Canada appears to be a lawless land. Ie: Caledonia, terrorism, our justice system in general ....man alive,  I can't believe all this  nonesense is being allowed to take place with no repercussions. All while hardworking average Joe gets the big shaft. And by no means am I bashing the police....they're not the ones who call the shots...they just follow orders.

 

[aluc]

[I'm quite certain there are many Canadians that are simply here for the money, health care and a safe haven to do what they wish ...

/end rant

This is probably true for the majority of immigrants that chose to come here. That's why my grandparents came here...but the difference is they appreciated and came to love Canada because they understood and realised that this country gave them everything they didn't have ( and it was a better place to live than Italy was), or wouldn't have if they chose to stay in Italy. They wanted to become more Canadian, because it was the right thing to do, and because Canada facilitated their success. They felt that they owed something to Canada. They just didn't become citizens for the convenience of it, they became citizens because this was their new adopted land , and they were proud of it....they didn't try to change it.. Anyways ...going off topic now.

 

[FastEddy]

[/quote]

With regard to all the concerned Islamic Groups/Organizations that are voicing their disdain over the evidence of radical militants in their midst and protests.

My question is, if these radicals are identifying them selves by carrying or posting signs or flags why aren't they confronted and removed from the Organizations or demonstrations by the Good, Loving and Peacefull Muslims, surely they must vastly out number them ?.

Or is it just another indication that these groups are only paying lip service ?.

As for the Politicians that are marching with them, I'd better not suggest what I think should be done with them.

Cheers.

 

[aluc]

http://www.torontosun.ca/News/TorontoAndGTA/2006/08/11/1744326-sun.html


Rallying for Lebanon

By NATALIE PONA




Protesters demanding an end to the bombings in Lebanon are slated to march outside the Israeli consulate this weekend.

"This is a march against aggression, against occupation, against the commission of war crimes," said Khaled Mouammar, spokesman for the Canadian Arab Federation.

The conflict is Israel's fault, he said yesterday, a message marchers will proclaim tomorrow.

But Cobie Brosh, Israel's consul general in Toronto, said his country did not initiate the conflict.

"Israel does not seek war and certainly not this war," he told reporters.

The event has been organized by the Toronto Coalition to Stop the War, the Canadian Arab Federation, the Muslim Unity Group, Palestine House, the Canadian Peace Alliance, the Coalition Against Israeli Apartheid, and the Arab Students Collective.

The event begins at 1 p.m. outside the Israeli consulate on Bloor St. at Avenue Rd.

"This is a march against aggression, against occupation, against the commission of war crimes," said Khaled Mouammar, spokesman for the Canadian Arab Federation.

The conflict is Israel's fault, he said yesterday, a message marchers will proclaim tomorrow.

This march is farcical at best. War crimes, occupations...? come on now. Let's see....how about innocent Israeli casualties, both recently and over the years. How about the push to "wipe out Israel" and it's Western allies?  What about the totally indiscriminate bombing of innocent Israeli civilians? How about targeting soft targets? Lying to your own people and using them as human shields? Setting up firing positions in mosques and schools? Shall I go on? Where is the anger and outrage at these acts of aggression, these war crimes, or the occupation of Lebanon by Hezbollah?

On my way to work this morning the radio host was mentioning that Toronto's Muslims are worried again because of yesterdays events in London. They're worried about the possible backlash from Canadians who are getting sick and tired of this crap. Sick and tired of the fact that these organisations are allowed to exist and spew forth grade A garbage to the Canadian public in a sick attempt to gain sympathy from Canadians. However, we don't want to offend these people. We must continue carrying the torch of political correctness around in a vain attempt to prove to ourselves how morally superior we are to the rest of the world . Meanwhile, we tolerate groups on our own soil....who claim to be Canadian , supporting terror organisations. The very same organisations our own parliament has condemned.... the same organisations our boys and girls of the Canadian Armed Forces are sacrificing their lives to fight and overcome, so that we may continue living soft, happy lives. Yet, we allow these people to continue demonstrating against everything we, as Canadians, hold dear...on our own soil.

The leaders of these groups are beginning to sicken me with their blatant pro-terror propaganda. No....it is not Israel's fault, it's your fault for encouraging and supporting Hezbollah. It astounds me that these people are brazen enough to publically support, and sympathise with a known, and banned terror organisation. Our government has also been largely inactive in condemning these pro terror groups that have been rising up in our own towns and cities. Just as well, after yesterday's bomb threat in the UK, hopefully people will begin to see that it is time to come together and do what is correct, and speak out against such groups, organisations, and federations such as the Canadian Arab Federation etc... who appear to be no better than their parent terror organisations across the pond. These groups have infiltrated our universities, their student councils,  and have posted their propaganda all over the walls in a vain attempt to confuse and intimidate -I've seen it first hand at my university.

 

[aluc]

http://www.torontosun.ca/News/TorontoAndGTA/2006/08/11/1744327-sun.html

Fri, August 11, 2006
Groups fight over plight

By NATALIE PONA, TORONTO SUN




Israel's citizens are suffering just as much as the Lebanese, despite the media's focus on the plight of Lebanon's people, says Israel's Consul General in Toronto.

It's easy to find stories of hardship among the citizens of Lebanon because Israel's government has done a better job taking care of its own, Cobie Brosh said.

However, he added Israeli citizens are also suffering.

"There is a need to clarify that more than 1 million Israeli citizens live continually as hostages under the threat of missiles and organizations that use these missiles and declare their intention to obliterate the state of Israel," he said during a speech at the Pantages Hotel, on Victoria St.

Brosh's comments are laughable, countered Khaled Mouammar, spokesman for the Canadian Arab Federation.

"This is the aggressor trying to equate (its experience) with what is happening to the victim," Mouammar said.

 

[Gunnar]

The time is ripe for a short little man with a bad mustache to get us a final solution to this problem.

No, I'm not advocating this...I'm warning.  We're all tired of this.  Government is progressively enacting more and more draconian laws, putting people through more and more "security" to "protect" us...and we, the docile population, put up with it.

What happens when, after years of doing nothing, and letting us all simmer with anger over the injustice of it all, someone comes along with a solution for "real Canadians"?  You know...those angry Canadians who are now used to following orders from a centralized authority?

Nazi Germany didn't happen overnight.  It happened when a majority of the population, realizing that things sucked in Germany, where the Reichstag did nothing but dither again and again, where the same problems occurred with an administration that was "soft on crime"...people had had enough.  When someone came along promising them a solution to their problems, they jumped at the chance...

We are on that road.  Restricted travel, search and seizure, detention without publically available evidence, etc.  If you think this is going away soon, you're very wrong.

The irony of it all is that the fundy Islamists are trying to destroy our free society...of tolerance, equality before the law, and freedom to believe and say whatever you wish....and they are slowly accomplishing it, by allowing us to turn into a police state as we attempt to *defend* our freedoms...by giving them up for a little temporary security.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Since I had to convert to Islam to marry my wife (legal issue in Malaysia) I have been able to see some of the Muslim society, in general a peaceful bunch, but there is a few problems.

A very radical and well organized minority to have been able to use the mosques as a media centre, recruitment, intimidation, communication and logistical support network. They work hard to get their people into the power positions within the local communities. The moderates are kept in line with berating, guilt, exclusion and lastly threats and intimidations.

Another problem that feeds above is that Islam encourages conformism and not individualism. It also has not made the leap that Christianity has in regard to involvement in laws and daily life. Although our laws are based on Christian concepts, the direct influence of the values and the church has been removed. This is not the case in Islam where spiritual matters, Clerics, laws and daily matters are all intertwined giving them far more control over the population than we are accustomed to.

Built on above is a sense of victimization that extends from a combination of colonial injustices (either real or perceived), a glorified and heavily propagandized view of the Islamic “golden years” and the containing influence of tribalism (which I find interesting as it appears that one of the key elements that Muhammad was trying to suppress was the these influences)

There is more, but I don’t have time to post.