RANDOM WW1 badge collection found!

[cmsl333]

My brother and I recently found this collection of badges my great great uncle collected and has since been stored in a barn.  Random find.  Anyone know much about these badges?  My brother has taken a picture of a lot of them.  It's an interesting collection.  Little over 1500 badges.  Talk to me...what do I have here?????

http://s935.photobucket.com/home/nearnorth

 

[Michael OLeary]

I think you were getting some pretty sound advice on the British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15319

You have a very serious collection with some very valuable badges, DO NOT sell anything until you have them professionally appraised by a very experienced collector or auction house.

 

[cmsl333]

Perspective(s) is/are everything. Plus doesn't hurt to share this collection with others that wouldn't normally google them.  A week ago I had zero interest in these badges; now I have a new found respect.  There might be someone else that may come across either threads and be intrigued as I was at first glance.  May even luck out with an old fart on here that isn't on the other forum that can truly appreciate the collection. 

 

[ballz]

I think you were getting some pretty sound advice on the British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15319

You have a very serious collection with some very valuable badges, DO NOT sell anything until you have them professionally appraised by a very experienced collector or auction house.

More than one!

Good luck cmsl333

 

[brihard]

Oh. Friggin'. Wow. That is a HELL of a collection you've found there. Absolutely stunning. Congratulations on the find- now have fun learning about some of these regiments!

 

[Strike]

In the meantime, whatever you do, DON'T polish them.  The patina is protecting them.

Awesome collection there.  I'm impressed.

 

[Old Sweat]

I agree with everything that has been said. You have found an incredible trove of militaria. My grandfather, who served in the 3rd Bn CEF, had a small collection of about 15-25 badges and buttons he apprarently collected while recuperating in a hospital.  Honour the soldiers who wore these bages and find out as much as you can about the treasure trove.

 

[cmsl333]

In the meantime, whatever you do, DON'T polish them.  The patina is protecting them.

Thoughts on any badges looking like this?  Clean or not to clean?

 

[Michael OLeary]

From the Great War Forum: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=67021

QUOTE (wainfleet @ Jan 9 2007, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Use a brass brush on it till the verdigris has gone. Brass won't scratch brass.

A Top Tip!!
Concur with wainfleet on this one,a small suede brush or similar is ideal for removing verdegris from such Badges & won't damage the surface.I have used one on many badges over the past 40 odd years to no detriment,which is more than can be said for the verdigris!

Or from here: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/medals-decorations/13343-removal-verdigris.html

I hesitate to suggest anything. Cleaning is risky business... restoration is best left to professionals.

If the verdigris is light, wiping with vinegar may remove it. Follow with a water rinse.

Verdigris can be cleaned from brass and copper with a solution of ammonia and salt.

These are kitchen recipes... test on some silver jewellery or an old silver dime that isnt worth much. Etching the silver is not a good thing.

Restoration and cleaning of medals @ http://www.angelfire.com/nj/ww2/ccleaning.html suggests on copper and coppers alloys: "If the area of corrosion is not great or very deep, a bone needle may be used to loosen and remove the verdigris. Badly contaminated medals should be alternately soaked in a 20% solution of sodium sesquicarbonate and worked with the bone needle".

Remember, always work under a magnifying glass.

 

[cmsl333]

Thanks for the links. My brother and I have some reading to do.

Side note, someone posted on the other forum about "The White Collection" found in England.  Can anyone elaborate on this collection? Significance?

 

[Strike]

If you're considering giving it up/selling it, try the Army Officers' Mess in Ottawa.  They have a pretty large collection of cap badges and you may have some that they are missing.  ER Campbell may be able to fill in some info on this.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Side note, someone posted on the other forum about "The White Collection" found in England.  Can anyone elaborate on this collection? Significance?

Sometimes when a major collection put together by a well-known collector over years is sold at auction they are known as a named collection and recognized for the integrity of its provenance which is used to support the fact that the badges are fully verified as authentic.

 

[Edward Campbell]

If you're considering giving it up/selling it, try the Army Officers' Mess in Ottawa.  They have a pretty large collection of cap badges and you may have some that they are missing.  ER Campbell may be able to fill in some info on this.

The Army Officers' Mess collection is a long term loan from the late Col. Gardham; I doubt it can be modified in any way.

Without knowing who or where you are, cmsl333, I suggest you contact Michael O'Leary by PM for some advice: he is a well known collector, himself, and, having known him for some years, I am sure he will give you honest and fair guidance. As others have said, this is a collection of potential historical interest and, probably, of some monetary value too. Avail yourself of the help that is available here, through Army.ca.

 

[larry Strong]

And please feel free to post piccie's ;D

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

Thoughts on any badges looking like this?  Clean or not to clean?

If that's a real 9th Battalion, it is exceedingly rare.  The 9th Battalion wore Edmonton Fusilier badges.  When it became a reserve battalion through which replacements flowed, only the staff had 9th Battalion badges and there weren't many staff.  It looks like one known to be real and unlike one suspected to be fake.

 

[chrisf]

Thoughts on any badges looking like this?  Clean or not to clean?

From me dear ol' mum who works in a archives, with a bunch of conservators... DON'T! Any sort of cleaning, particularly amateur cleaning, won't do anything to increase the value, and you risk damaging.

According to her, cleaning any sort of tarnish on metals is a risky business even by professionals... unless it's specificy required for display, and going to be stabilized to prevent future tarnish, they usually don't bother... every time you clean oxidization, you're removing what used to be metal, exposing clean metal underneath, which in turn is going to eventually become oxidized itself, whereas if you leave the oxidization in place, it serves as a barrier between the air and the metal underneath.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Firstly, there's a big difference between "cleaning" badges like these and "polishing " them.

Cleaning them to remove built-up dirt and grime can be accomplished with a bit of soap and water, using a very soft bristle brush to get into the crevices. Cleaning should not be vigorous enough to affect the natural patina of the metal, but will get the grime off to ensure that corrosion isn't happening where it cannot be seen.

Corrosion, like the green verdigris on the 9th Battalion badge, can damage the metal surface and should be arrested and when possible removed by methods that do not affect the metal surface underneath.  Thorough research and consultation with experienced professionals can lead to recommendations for the right materials and techniques. (The verdigris is not a protective oxidation process, it is more like rust on steel than it is like an oxidization patina on silver.) Any advice should be carefully cross-checked to ensure there is consensus among the consulted references.

Cleaning Methods for Removing Verdigris from Vintage Jewelry

At no time should abrasive polishes of any sort be used - no Brasso, no Silvo, no Twinkle, etc., etc., etc.  All of these, and everything like them, include small particles which scour the surface and will remove material.

 

[vonGarvin]

Those are amazing!  And I second Mr. E.R. Campbell's advice.  Mr. O'Leary is the one person who can offer you the proper guidance on what to do with these.


And thank you for sharing with us! 

 

[cmsl333]

Thank you all for your insight.  First things first, my brother and I are organizing the collection to see what we have and what don't have.

Does anyone else in Canada have a near complete collection?

 

[Michael OLeary]

There is a complete set of CEF battalion badges on display at The RCR Museum in London. Having a complete set is not something that many collectors will brag about, it opens them to visits from unsavory characters.