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Please post all replies to the Sorry, we don't agree: "Fighting is for Men" Editorial here.
3rd Horseman said:ahhhh.....how come no one has pushed the issue of "Time to Trigger"? Back to that old adage cant change 50,000 years of evolution.
Hollywog said:Honestly I don't think we are as good as our forfathers. The Israelis dropped this when it was proven to fail in battle. And if anyone wants a big combat arms it's them.
Infanteer said:Remember, the Israeli's dropped them from their conscript army. Self-selection, when combined with high standards, should be an important factor.
Hollywog said:The real question is could our politically correct canadian army with the low physical standards today have taken Passchendale.
Hollywog said:I can't think of one battle that females won ever in any army, hmmm.
Michael Dorosh said:The Canadian Army in September 1939 could not have taken Passchendaele, nor could the Canadian Army on 1914 or even 1915. It's not a fair or intelligent comparison.
George Wallace said:Did the Russians, during WW II, not use Women as Combatants in formed units. We have the Legends/History of the Amazon warriors. Women have been documented throughout history as being Warriors. Look at the French Revolution, or earlier with Joan d'Arc. There are thousands of examples.
As a company commander ... during Op APOLLO, I had a female infantryman under my command. We did the Army PT test and I had to tell her to stop at 350 sit-ups because it was becoming pointless. She had proved the point, and then some. We had another female infantry soldier who was equally hard. Neither of these PPCLI soldiiers who had met all of the "hurdles" ever let me or their fire-team partners down. They did the job, full-stop.
When we air-assaulted into the Shah-i-Kot Valley, both of those infantrymen were there. The ultra-fit soldier who had done the sit-ups twisted a knee disembtarking from the helo and had to be evacced. It was a legit injury. The other soldier did the business just like anyone else. She was later involved in a mine-strike during a routine KAF patrol that wrote-off the armoured Hummer her patrol was riding in. She got bruised and battered, but soldiered on. I give full credit to her and the soldiers that she served with in B Coy 3 PPCLI. Full-stop.
Those here who demean or otherwise question the role of female soldiers on combat operations are fundamentally wrong. I have served on combat ops with female infantrymen, and I am here to tell you that they can do "the business" just like any man can. The truth of the matter is that that most "men" don't have the parts to soldier at the sharp end. Just as most women don't have that particular inclination. But those that do have the gumption to get on a helo when they're told that that there are determined enemy awaiting them at the far end? They are genderless. A soldier, is a soldier. And I had the distinct honour of serving with genuine soldiers regardless of gender.....
When certain ladies step up to the plate, they are good to go. When we were staging for Op Torii into Tora Bora, as the acting 3 PPCLI CO I had a male Cpl from A Coy (Para) refuse to muster. He would not Air-Assault a second time, and I therefore had to send him back to Kandahar and then home. He had failed to rise to the occasion. So much for gender superiority....
The female infantry soldiers that I had the benefit of serving with in 3 PPCLI were an admitted minority. Having said that, those that did make the grade and join the unit were exceptional soldiers. They met the standard, and were good to go. Full-stop. They went on to soldier on combat operations, and did the Regiment proud. What more could one ask?
I would soldier alongside those female Patricias any day of the week. They got on the helo's when the forecast called for "pain". They got off at the other end, prepared to do the business. Most did the same, but there were some "men"who flinched to the point of refusal. Neither of the female Patricias flinched when it came time for mulitiple combat air assaults.....
The "hard men" here can spout all they like. At the end of the day, you've either faced deliberate combat operations, or you haven't. You've either encountered an unexpected life or death situation while "peace-keeping", or you haven't. If you haven't, then you have no right to comment upon the ability of female infantry soldiers to do the buisness. Am I hearing a thundering silence from the peanut gallery? I thought so.....
My thoughts on the matter of "gender equality".... for what it's worth.
Hollywog said:The point is to get the soldiers to the point where they were in 1917 we would have to first eliminate females from the infantry. Like we did the ross rifle. I could just see my mom or any of the females I've known in uniform in the mud carrying the duckboards.
If its such a good idea why did the Israelies remove them?
Awaiting your more intelligent answer than mine to point out how we overcame all the issues they had. I must have missed that part.
As I see it we haven't and some will take nothing short of the ross failing at Second Ypres which as you point out there were about 6k casualties to wake up.
Remember a lot of those troops need not have died if the useless weapon they had worked do we need to have the same thing with women in combat to stir you?
Michael Dorosh said:Misogynists like you never gave them a chance...
You're actively promoting segregation? Why?
Segregated units have historically been successful. Negro troops in the American Civil War, World War I and World War II performed - for the most part - very well (one black division in Italy was poorly led and performed terribly apparently). The Nisei performed very well in WW II also.
I suspect with heightened expectations, an all female battalion would acquit themselves excellently.
Someone point this dude to the earlier comments on women in Afghanistan, it was a thing of beauty.
Hollywog said:And As for some officer making comments on women in afghanistan do you think it will help him get whisked into a generals job in the PC Canadian Armed Forces?