Senator and Polaris Institute challenge PMC's

[Cdn Blackshirt]

I just wanted to say I watched Diplomatic Immunity over the weekend and some of the comments made here about you "being clear what your against" as opposed to "what you stand for", was very evident during the show and very much undercut your credibility in the debate.

To be candid, I have little doubt that you're a well-intentioned man.  I don't think people spend as much time at anything as you obviously do with the intent of trying to make things worse but my suggestion would be that the Polaris Institute take some time and actually formulate a model in which you believe Canada's armed forces SHOULD intervene on foreign soil.

Is it ethnic cleansing?

Is it genocide?

In short, define the set of parameters in which the Polaris Institute would support Canadian Intervention, and then in black & white also define under what parameters you wouldn't.

Then once you define where we should intervene, review the practical implications of that inclination.  Example:  If we want to stop the next African Genocide, what personnel, tools and skils do we need?

Bottom Line:  At present to sit back and just criticize is below your level of intelligence and is a disservice to Canadians who need leaders leading from the front, and as such I hope the Polaris Institute reconsiders its current positioning and moves from an organization that merely complains to one that steps forward and in public forums begins to present tangible working alternatives.

I do hope you'll respond....

Thank you in advance,


Matthew. 

 

[Cloud Cover]

To be fair- he is one person in an unruly gaggle that must be a pain in the a$$ for him to manage. If you read between the lines, there is some common ground. 

 

[HDE]

I read a National Post article not long ago where the issue of former Canadian soldiers working for private military firms arose.  Mr Staples commented that since they had received their training from the government  there should be some sort of "oversight" on what they did with it.  Essentially you served once in the Canadian military and so you're obliged to get a sign-off on how you behave from then on.  I'd love to see this sort of thing imposed on just about any other member of Canadian society.  I wonder if Mr.Staples actually thinks through the implications of his assertions.  Increasingly, IMHO, we live in a world where the 10 second sound bite replaces thoughtful analysis.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Sarcasm ON:  

I actually think PMC's should be tasked with ruthlessly safeguarding UN and NGO work in the various places around the world. Why should the suits and the warlords be the only ones making a few bucks out of humanitarian relief?    

Sarcasm OFF:

Steven is entitled to his opinion, but in this case the idea is mis-placed.   There are lots of Canadian ex-soldiers doing valuable PMC work everyday all over the globe and in virtually all cases their work goes towards protecting human life and property, not destroying it. Why anybody would want to interfere with that is simply astounding and once again a farily clear demonstration of the lack of informed debate that spews from the cake-holes of far too many citizens in this country.   PMC's may hold dim views of the people they are protecting, but at least they are doing something to keep people alive.

That being said, I'll give Steven credit for at least taking the time to discuss the matter. Not many politicians of any consequence would bother because there is no politcal capital to be gained from the discussion.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Don't worry, Mr Staples is in good company:  Senator Dellaire was quoted in the 17 November Ottawa Citizen as saying much the same, further reinforcing my opinion of him.  : 

The court challenges would be interesting, to say the least!

 

[KevinB]

I'd like to see them try to tell me what to do 

 

[teddy49]

Copyright 2005 CanWest Interactive, a division of
CanWest Global
Communications Corp.
Times Colonist (Victoria, British Columbia) November 17, 2005 Thursday Final  Edition Pg. A5

Senator seeks federal ban on Canadian mercenaries:
Private security firms should be off-limits, says former Canadian Forces general

a journalist, CanWest News Service

OTTAWA

OTTAWA-- Canadians should be banned from working as hired guns for private military firms, says Senator Romeo Dallaire.

The retired Canadian Forces general, who commanded United Nations troops during the Rwandan genocide, warns there is not enough legal oversight of companies who provide governments and corporations with the equivalent of private armies. He argues such firms are mercenary organizations.

In the 1990s private military companies were hired by several countries to provide soldiers to defeat guerrilla armies or act as advisers to train troops for combat. The industry has rapidly expanded and today there are an estimated 20,000 private security contractors working in Iraq and an unknown number operating in Afghanistan. They protect government officials and aid agency workers, train police and soldiers, and guard important installations such as oil refineries and power plants.

Dallaire recently returned from South Africa which has banned its citizens from taking part in outright mercenary activities and heavily regulates those who want to be involved with private security firms.

"We don't have such a law," Dallaire said. "If I had any influence I would bring in a law that would prevent [Canadians] from joining organizations that have an international mandate of security that is non-controllable.

"Make it illegal," he added.

Nepal and the Philippines have banned their citizens from working in Iraq.

Former commandos from the Canadian military's Joint Task Force 2 special forces unit are employed overseas as private security contractors, including in Iraq. In addition, ex-regular force Canadian soldiers have found employment as hired guns in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Exact numbers of Canadians employed in such jobs is not known since the industry is largely unregulated. Maj. Doug Allison, a spokesman for the Canadian Forces counter-terrorism branch, said the military does not know how many JTF2 members have left for jobs with private military firms. But Canadian Forces documents obtained by the Ottawa Citizen show the highly trained JTF2 personnel, in particular, are being activity recruited by such firms.

So far three Canadians working as private security contractors have been killed in Iraq. Two died in gun battles and a third was killed in a bomb blast.

At least 270 civilian contractors have been killed in Iraq but some estimates put that figure as high as 500. The numbers include both former soldiers working for security firms as well as support personnel.

Foreign Affairs officials say there are no regulations preventing Canadians from working for private military firms.

Defence analyst David Rudd questioned whether the federal government could ban individuals from employment in a particular industry. Even if a law were brought in prohibiting Canadians from working for military companies, it would be almost impossible to enforce, he added. "It's difficult to ban Canadians from doing anything," said Rudd, president
of the Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies. "We have an open economy and we have freedom of movement."

Other analysts have argued private military companies can provide security in war-torn countries more quickly and efficiently than, for instance, forces brought in by the United Nations.

But Dallaire said the issue is not whether private soldiers can do the job better than their counterparts in standing armies. The issue is the lack of accountability and oversight of such firms, he noted. In addition, Dallaire said that since money is the prime motivation of such companies and the individuals who work for them, there are questions about how that might affect how they do their jobs.

"The slippery slope is that we actually have governments acknowledging these things are capable and they're acceptable," he added.

But Doug Brooks, president of the International Peace Operations Association, which represents some of the largest firms in the security industry, argues civilian contractors are even more accountable than United Nations troops. It is in the best interests of companies to ensure their personnel act professionally and are well trained, he added.

"The goal here has to be improving peace and stability operations," Brooks said. "The better you do peace and stability operations the more people are alive at the end. But it seems to me a lot of people see the goal as penalizing companies that dare to make a profit in a conflict zone."

GRAPHIC:
Photo: Jean Levac, CanWest News Service; Romeo Dallaire: "Make it illegal."

Edited for formatting-Harris

 

[Infanteer]

Someone gave him a patronage job and now look what happens.  Maybe he's just upset because nobody wanted to hire him?  :

 

[teddy49]

I wish people would quit saying that we are unregulated and unaccountable.  Our industry in Iraq is heavily regulated by the Iraqi Ministry of Interior.  If your company isn't registered with the MOI than you are operating illegally.  We have ROEs like everyone else and they are as restrictive if not more restrictive than the ROE's that MNFI operates under.

I've read the language of the South African law, and the plain language translation of it, as well as one company's lawyer's legal opinions of the laws.  It's a horrible piece of legislation that is immensely broad in it's scope.  Even though I'm not a SA citizen or resident, I can be arrested and tried for breaking their law, should I decide to visit SA for holiday.  It gets worse, My bank manager or ANY employee of my financial intitution can be arrested for aiding me, since my account is in that Bank.  None of this is exaggeration, the law is that broad reaching.  The South Africans that work for my company, are all trying to emigrate somewhere else.

I'm not sure what a the author's, opinion is, but this about the 3rd article of his that I've read that talks about criminalizing PSC work

 

[KevinB]

Well dopey also thought it was a good idea arming the savages with M-2's and Grizzlies...

 

[paracowboy]

I keep sayin' it: It's time to cull the herd.
We could take this fool out into a field of mating clues, during clue mating season, capture one, hog-tie it for him, and he'd still leave clueless.
I say we take our dumbass friend into Darfur and the Sunni Triangle and leave him without a security team. Perhaps, just perhaps, his tune might change a smidge.

 

[enfield]

Soldiers can't work for PMC's, but he can sell-out to the Liberals? Interesting.

Why is this even an issue for him? Its not like there's a Canadian version of Executive Outcomes out there (which is what the South African laws were meant to counter). Perhaps the good General should concentrate on improving the military, helping the CDS, and dealing with Africa rather than go off on political tangents. His grasp on the complexities and realities of this topic seems limited.

But Dallaire said the issue is not whether private soldiers can do the job better than their counterparts in standing armies. The issue is the lack of accountability and oversight of such firms, he noted. In addition, Dallaire said that since money is the prime motivation of such companies and the individuals who work for them, there are questions about how that mightaffect how they do their jobs.
Given the known problems with UN troops, I would say that attempting to regulate and control blue-beret forces is far more important and timely and more within his arcs. They're doing more damage, under less supervision, than the average PMC.

Side Note: The South African and Nepalese laws seem a poor example - I still seem to hear about plenty of ex-Gurkhas and ex-SADF troops out there.

 

[GO!!!]

Well that makes all kinds of sense.

If an officer gains experience and training from the military, in leadership,logistics,management, a degree, (undergrad,masters or doctrate) he is permitted to use his military credentials and experience in any way he sees fit. This is even used as a recruiting tactic!(RMC is now training business grads)

If an NCMin the cbt arms is trained with skills that enable him to land a high paying civilian job, he is vilified as a mercenary, and campaigned against by members of our "friends of the Liberals" senate.

If this is to be implemented, lets go all the way, and ban the practice of retired generals participating in the lucrative lecture circuit, and RMC grads from ever using their degrees beyond the CF.

Thoughts?

 

[3rd Horseman]

GO I like it!    Maybe Romeo is still winsing from the mercenaries (French Foreign Legion) that cause him so much grief working on the wrong side of the Rwandan crises. I thought that CARE Canada employees that well known SA private army?

EDIT:typo

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I wish people would quit saying that we are unregulated and unaccountable.  Our industry in Iraq is heavily regulated by the Iraqi Ministry of Interior.  If your company isn't registered with the MOI than you are operating illegally.  We have ROEs like everyone else and they are as restrictive if not more restrictive than the ROE's that MNFI operates under.

And who is regulating the IMOI?

 

[KevinB]

The Iraqi Gov't, and Iraq is a (theoretically) sovreign nation. And just so some of the rather smug folk who read this can understand CANADA does hire these companies as well.


This is not a repeat of "Dog's of War" this is the "uparmoured" version of Brinks.


As much as I'd like to take over a small Carribean or African Island 


 

 

[Michael Dorosh]

You mean that great time-honoured bastion of democracy, the Iraqi government?   ;D   All is well, then.

At least Mr. Dallaire is not one of those senators that takes vacations at our expense.   Arguably, he is doing his job by stimulating debate.   I guess the concern is that if this is misguided, the other senators will need to come to the same conclusions as those expressing misgivings here.

Given the lack of military experience amongst our politicians....

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Well that makes all kinds of sense.

If an officer gains experience and training from the military, in leadership,logistics,management, a degree, (undergrad,masters or doctrate) he is permitted to use his military credentials and experience in any way he sees fit. This is even used as a recruiting tactic!(RMC is now training business grads)

If an NCMin the cbt arms is trained with skills that enable him to land a high paying civilian job, he is vilified as a mercenary, and campaigned against by members of our "friends of the Liberals" senate.

If this is to be implemented, lets go all the way, and ban the practice of retired generals participating in the lucrative lecture circuit, and RMC grads from ever using their degrees beyond the CF.

Thoughts?

GO!!  C'mon...plenty of officers have found work with PMCs too...(MPRI is filled with Cols and higher, for instance).  The argument is hardly aimed at NCMs.

 

[GO!!!]

GO!!  C'mon...plenty of officers have found work with PMCs too...(MPRI is filled with Cols and higher, for instance).  The argument is hardly aimed at NCMs.

I'm not stating that it is, but if we are going to restrict the activities of our troops, with the use of a legacy clause in their contracts, it should apply to all - officers and enlisted men.

I'm not speaking solely on the topic of employees of PMCs, either. I mean no RMC engineers being allowed to use their creds on civvie street, logistics officers not being allowed to gain employment in supply chain management, the whole nine yards. Lets do it once, properly and equitably the first time.

This would have the added beneficial effect of keeping people like Dallaire from representing us on the world stage, since thats not what we intended him to use his trg for.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

This would have the added beneficial effect of keeping people like Dallaire from representing us on the world stage, since thats not what we intended him to use his trg for.

Since you put it that way, it's a wonderful idea!  ;D