Shoplifters in Finland

[daftandbarmy]

Finnish him!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1710073848597754149

 

[RangerRay]

Awfully meek shoplifters. If you try that in Winnipeg, you’ll end up getting stabbed or your head caved in.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Awfully meek shoplifters. If you try that in Winnipeg, you’ll end up getting stabbed or your head caved in.

Possibly as the police and courts are not kind to violent offenders?

 

[RangerRay]

Possibly as the police and courts are not kind to violent offenders?

If what I have heard of the Finnish correctional system is true, it make ours look like Devil’s Island.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Awfully meek shoplifters. If you try that in Winnipeg, you’ll end up getting stabbed or your head caved in.

You're right. It's a damn shame good people aren't allowed to be carry in Canada. More dead bad guys will make less living bad guys.

 

[Booter]

Awfully meek shoplifters. If you try that in Winnipeg, you’ll end up getting stabbed or your head caved in.

Seems pretty clear the courts there back up people defending property as well. I’d suggest a cashier using pepper spray in Canada would be the one in trouble. Which is wrong…but I’m nobody

 

[OldSolduer]

Awfully meek shoplifters. If you try that in Winnipeg, you’ll end up getting stabbed or your head caved in.

You stole what I was going to say.

Oh and the police might not even respond to a shoplifter incident. The courts will release them to shoplift some more.

 

[Good2Golf]

Awfully meek shoplifters.

The “Oh well, I tried…” shrug was a good indicator.

 

[dangerboy]

If I was working at a store most likely maxing minimum wage I would not be too keen to deal with a shoplifter, especially if they are under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If I was working at a store most likely maxing minimum wage I would not be too keen to deal with a shoplifter, especially if they are under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Here a lot of those people own the franchise or the family does, so it hits home pretty quickly.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

You're right. It's a damn shame good people aren't allowed to be carry in Canada. More dead bad guys will make less living bad guys.

Tell me that is sarcasm.....

 

[Halifax Tar]

Tell me that is sarcasm.....

Nope.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Tell me that is sarcasm.....

There is a fair bit of evidence out there that the bad guys fear armed citizen and not the police. Unless the State steps up, eventually the citizens will.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Tell me that is sarcasm.....

I don’t want to see people killed over petty crime, but if a home owner or a small business owner is subjected to steady stream of theft and the State will not enforce the law, at what point can you blame people for taking matters into their own hands?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I don’t want to see people killed over petty crime, but if a home owner or a small business owner is subjected to steady stream of theft and the State will not enforce the law, at what point can you blame people for taking matters into their own hands?

It will happen eventually. The law is just a make believe set of rules we all agree to live by so long as its working in our favour... when that changes so does everything...

 

[daftandbarmy]

I don’t want to see people killed over petty crime, but if a home owner or a small business owner is subjected to steady stream of theft and the State will not enforce the law, at what point can you blame people for taking matters into their own hands?

As explained nicely in this article...

The Politics of Vigilantism​

Third, in addition to seeking to pre-empt vigilantism, the state may sometimes change its policies to legalize behaviors that were previously illegal. This is a particularly common reaction when a vigilante is viewed as heroic and enjoys a good deal of popular support, even though his or her actions went beyond what the law authorized at the time. Consider the story of Toronto grocer David Chen. In 2009, a habitual thief came into Chen’s market. Chen recognized the man and chased him down the street. He and some colleagues eventually caught the man, tied him up, threw him into a van, and hauled him back to their market.

Upon arrival at the market, they were all arrested23—the alleged thief for stealing plants, and Chen and his associates for taking actions that went beyond a lawful citizens’ arrest. Chen was charged with assault and forcible confinement. Although he was eventually acquitted, Chen’s case received considerable media attention. Politicians from across the political spectrum, including Prime Minister Stephen Harper, flocked to his store to show their support (Citizens, 2011). As a direct result of Chen’s case, Canada passed new federal legislation expanding the scope of permissible behavior during a citizens’ arrest (Appleby & Mahoney, 2013). Though anecdotal, this scenario illustrates a third mechanism by which vigilantism can push states to adopt more punitive policies. Political scientists researching the consequences of vigilantism will want to probe these processes more systematically.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0010414020957692

 

[Halifax Tar]

As explained nicely in this article...

The Politics of Vigilantism​

Third, in addition to seeking to pre-empt vigilantism, the state may sometimes change its policies to legalize behaviors that were previously illegal. This is a particularly common reaction when a vigilante is viewed as heroic and enjoys a good deal of popular support, even though his or her actions went beyond what the law authorized at the time. Consider the story of Toronto grocer David Chen. In 2009, a habitual thief came into Chen’s market. Chen recognized the man and chased him down the street. He and some colleagues eventually caught the man, tied him up, threw him into a van, and hauled him back to their market.

Upon arrival at the market, they were all arrested23—the alleged thief for stealing plants, and Chen and his associates for taking actions that went beyond a lawful citizens’ arrest. Chen was charged with assault and forcible confinement. Although he was eventually acquitted, Chen’s case received considerable media attention. Politicians from across the political spectrum, including Prime Minister Stephen Harper, flocked to his store to show their support (Citizens, 2011). As a direct result of Chen’s case, Canada passed new federal legislation expanding the scope of permissible behavior during a citizens’ arrest (Appleby & Mahoney, 2013). Though anecdotal, this scenario illustrates a third mechanism by which vigilantism can push states to adopt more punitive policies. Political scientists researching the consequences of vigilantism will want to probe these processes more systematically.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0010414020957692

If the Gov and it's police lose their ability to protect the innocent and prosecute the guilty eventually the citizenry will take it into their own hands.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

If the Gov and it's police lose their ability to protect the innocent and prosecute the guilty eventually the citizenry will take it into their own hands.

The State is just outsourced protection.

Once it is well recognized that the State is not interested in doing that work, ordinary people will do it locally. Which is a horror show.

Which is why being “nice” to criminals is perverse justice.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The State is just outsourced protection.

Once it is well recognized that the State is not interested in doing that work, ordinary people will do it locally. Which is a horror show.

Which is why being “nice” to criminals is perverse justice.

Very well put.

But perhaps a little horror show is what's needed every once in a while.

 

[OldSolduer]

I don’t want to see people killed over petty crime, but if a home owner or a small business owner is subjected to steady stream of theft and the State will not enforce the law, at what point can you blame people for taking matters into their own hands?

That happened in 86 in Calgary. The third time he was held up he killed the robber. He was charged, tried and found not guilty. It will happen.