Side Scan Sonar

[Ex-Dragoon]

Any thoughts on why this is not standard fit on all warships, beyond price?

 

[navymich]

I can see the benefit in having it on all ships, as that would allow more availability in accommodating for taskings and such.  Not having to worry about who is in, who is out, who is coming or going.  A task comes up, and next in line, away you go.

However, it also means having to have trained operators available on all ships equipped with it, at all times.  That's where I see the problem.

(

darn you ex-d and all your interesting Navy stuff....I'll never cut the apron strings like this!!)

 

[Stoker]

Generally side scan sonar can be used on most types of vessels or even something as small as a speedboat in the case of the Klien 5500 sonar that we use now. From what I seen large warships don't use or are equipped with it due to the fact its a waste of an asset where a small vessel can do the job. I think the CPF's also don't use it due to the fact they have such a large freeboard and its not their mission As for trained personnel, it relatively easy to operate the gear and train personnel to read the bottom types. The other route survey package that we currently operate is problematic and hard to keep running. The Kline 5500 that we operated with in LOYAL MARINER 2005 in the Baltic was a nice piece of kit.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I was thinking for the more frequent littoral type of operations we do these days it would be more prudent for a CPF or 280 to have one fitted. Is this not the case?

 

[Stoker]

I was thinking for the more frequent littoral type of operations we do these days it would be more prudent for a CPF or 280 to have one fitted. Is this not the case?

Side Scan is usually used for mine warfare. Now I doubt the powers to be are going to risk a high valued asset like a CPF where mines could be, that's why they build lots of little ships like minesweepers. I don't think there's any utility to equipping a CPF with side scan.

 

[navymich]

And even if they weren't doing the minesweeping stuff, I just can't see a 280 or frigate in the traffic lanes, back and forth back and forth, for days on end, mapping the bottom.  It doesn't seem cost efficient at all, especially manpower-wise.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Sorry I probably wasn't clear....I am referring to a mission fit for "just in case". Have it fitted as a back up so to speak.

 

[Stoker]

Sorry I probably wasn't clear....I am referring to a mission fit for "just in case". Have it fitted as a back up so to speak.

We have that capability right now here in Halifax. The Klien is ready to be deployed at a moments notice out of BIO, along with operators and equipment. Its not really that big a mission fit, although its set up for the MCDV's and other type vessels, it could probally be mated to a CPF, although speed would be a factor and the CPF would have to slow down alot to be able to operate it. Usually the ships that operate it also must be able to conduct turns sharply, which a CPF doesn't do well.

 

[navymich]

Concur with what Stoker has said WRT speed and turns, and I'll add "stopping" to that list as well.  Hard enough sometimes for the little guys to stop in time (check out this thread for some background), much less the heavies.

 

[mudrecceman]

okay in very simple terms, considering I am a land-lover and OPSEC, what is the benefit of side scan vice "the other kind you use".

Just curious...

 

[aesop081]

okay in very simple terms, considering I am a land-lover and OPSEC, what is the benefit of side scan vice "the other kind you use".

Just curious...

Side-scan sonar maps the ocean floor...

Variable depth sonars and towed-array sonars listen for sounds from ships and subs or detects them by active emission....

Different jobs

basicaly speaking

 

[mudrecceman]

seen

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Sorry I probably wasn't clear....I am referring to a mission fit for "just in case". Have it fitted as a back up so to speak.

Considering theatres like the Persian Gulf and the potential threat of Iran mining the Straits of Hormuz, your argument makes sense to me....


Matthew. 

 

[DONT_PANIC]

Didn't they equip ships heading out to the First Gulf War with a high frequency sonar to help deal with the mines?

 

[hugh19]

The sonar fitted for Gulf war 1 was a hull mounted mine avoidance sonar. Not a bottom mapping sonar. They are different things.

 

[TAS278]

Nice Topic I am currently the LS SonarOp at Route Survey. (Sidescan/Multibeam Sonar) I have been using the Klein 5500 sonar for 2 years now and have seen many other "solutions".

Klein Sonars are great and being OTS makes it so much more powerful. To be honest the lack of Military structure in this repsect to this is to our advantage.

The real problem with towed sonars though is that they aren't designed for mine detection. A forward looking sonar would be much more beneficial. 

For those that work/live in Halifax and would like a tour of the BIO/Route Survey Office feel free to contact us and we can arrange something.

Also if you just have some questions for here feel free to fire away

Oh and you guys seemed to educate yourselves very well. Most of what you are saying is bang on

 

[navymich]

Oh and you guys seemed to educate yourselves very well. Most of what you are saying is bang on

The majority of the people who have commented on it have worked with it.  Some of us too extensively! 

 

[TAS278]

Unfortunately the gear requires computer upgrades and system modifications for each vessel we use. So with that said it can become quite "exstensive" for a load out.  If you go down to the dockyard today you will see our gear is on a MCDV as we speak.

 

[Cronicbny]

Unfortunately the gear requires computer upgrades and system modifications for each vessel we use. So with that said it can become quite "exstensive" for a load out.  If you go down to the dockyard today you will see our gear is on a MCDV as we speak.

Indeed... tell Lt(N) MacDonald I say hello!

SLT Kenward

 

[NavyShooter]

Heya Tas278...

Any truth to the rumor that you're lacking in NET(A)'s over there at BIO?

I've seen some of what you guys do a few years back, I helped with your server setup when I was with N-6.

NS