Soldiers still wait for outfits

[JasonH]

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/News/2004/07/18/547267.html

OTTAWA -- A full five years after pledging to outfit its 34,000 army regular and reserve force soldiers in specially designed woodland camouflage gear, the Canadian Forces has yet to meet its target. The military began outfitting troops heading to six-month foreign missions with three sets of Canadian Disruptive Pattern Temperate Woodland pants and shirts in 1999 and replacing them with fresh uniforms upon their return.

But with 3,000-plus Canadian soldiers heading abroad every six months since then, the military hasn't had the time to outfit soldiers working in Canada.

That has left some wearing mismatched uniforms and still sporting the old olive drab shirt or pants.

Maj. Chris Lemay, Defence Department spokesman, said the 200,000 uniforms ordered will outfit the entire army once they're distributed.

But Lemay said at the moment they're kept in storage to make sure there's enough of the forest-patterned shirts and pants to dress all deploying soldiers.

"The problem is the operational tempo that the army has been going through," he said, adding it will take at least one more year to outfit the entire army in the four-coloured CADPAT design. "The issue has mainly to do with priorities, who should get it."

Lemay said deploying brigades and their affiliated reserve units are the first priority, as are the navy and air force personnel joining the missions. Then the camouflage gear will be shipped to soldiers working in Canada.

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What caught my attention was "It will take at least one more year to outfit the entire army in the four-coloured CADPAT design.".  I know we'll have Artic, Woodland, Desert... whats the other one?  And I thought that was just for the people being on deplaoyment that requires it... so wouldn't it take even longer to equip those who are based back here or abroad?  Just a thought.

 

[casing]

Doesn't "four-coloured" mean that the CADPAT is composed of four different colours?   As opposed to "four coloured", which would infer that there are four distinct CADPAT uniforms (4 environments).

Edit: From http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?FlashEnabled=1&id=33:

Unlike the combination of four colours in the temperate pattern and three colours in the arid pattern, the new winter operations pattern will likely combine white and shades of grey and include a reversible, all-white side.

 

[Infanteer]

The four-coloured design refers to the fact that CADPAT is composed of four colours:  black, pinkish-brown, and two shades of green.

Arctic uniforms consist of white covers for the parka, pants, helmet, and rucksack.  There is no "Arctic" CADPAT pattern, once you get a little use in the white covers, they work just fine.

As for the article, it concerns me.  If Ottawa can't even plan the distribution of pants and shirts properly, what does that say of their ability to conduct a combat operation overseas that entrusts the lives of our soldiers into their "capable" hands?

 

[AntiArmour Guy]

Arctic uniforms consist of white covers for the parka, pants, helmet, and rucksack.  There is no "Arctic" CADPAT pattern, once you get a little use in the white covers, they work just fine.

As mentioned in the above post, there will be.

If Ottawa can't even plan the distribution of pants and shirts properly, what does that say of their ability to conduct a combat operation overseas that entrusts the lives of our soldiers into their "capable" hands?

For someone who has been around I'm a tad surprised to see such a naive statement.  Ottawa doesn't condcut combat operations...operators conduct operations.  The DCDS group with NDCC and all other necessary planners are actually quite proficient at sending us places, and quickly (remember Haiti?).  Then it's the operators turn.

 

[291er]

thanks for that AntiArmour.....NDCC is quite good at doing it's job, it's certainly not an easy one, and there is'nt much credit given to the shiftworkers there.

 

[KevinB]

The DCDS group with NDCC and all other necessary planners are actually quite proficient at sending us places, and quickly (remember Haiti?).   Then it's the operators turn.

: If the Hercs fly if...

I dont know about you - but I remember quite a few of fucked up missions...
And they are still coming down the pipe.

Roto II OP ATHENA gets the used CADPAT AR from 3 Vandoo...

 

[Infanteer]

Unlike the combination of four colours in the temperate pattern and three colours in the arid pattern, the new winter operations pattern will likely combine white and shades of grey and include a reversible, all-white side.

Huh.  News to me.  Obviously its low on the priority list since its hiding at the bottom of that page.  As for the Urban camo, seems like a waste of effort.  Not only are cities around the world a wide variety of shades and colours, but the flow of operations will determine whether forces move through a city, move around a city, skip it all together, etc.  Are we supposed to tow a large wardrobe around the battlefield and change in the middle of the advance?

The reference to the "four coloured pattern" is to the four shades of the Temperate CADPAT design though.  Thanks for the link anyhow.

Ottawa doesn't condcut combat operations...operators conduct operations.  The DCDS group with NDCC and all other necessary planners are actually quite proficient at sending us places, and quickly (remember Haiti?).  Then it's the operators turn.

Semantics.  The real crux of my statement was that it is hard to find good decisive action on behalf of our military and political masters in Ottawa.  Whether it be three clunky command structures for a shrinking Balkan deployment (increasing the tail over the tooth), having to beg for American equipment support and kit on combat operations in Afghanistan while at the same time being pestered from Ottawa for modifying issue kit to meet the task, or a plethora of other bureaucratic issues, you can see what my "naive" observation is directed towards....

 

[AntiArmour Guy]

[Semantics.  The real crux of my statement was that it is hard to find good decisive action on behalf of our military and political masters in Ottawa.  Whether it be three clunky command structures for a shrinking Balkan deployment (increasing the tail over the tooth), having to beg for American equipment support and kit on combat operations in Afghanistan while at the same time being pestered from Ottawa for modifying issue kit to meet the task, or a plethora of other bureaucratic issues, you can see what my "naive" observation is directed towards....

Now that is much better, more articulate and (lol) more accurate.

@KevinB - I know what you mean.  But we don't pick our missions...otherwise we would have been in Iraq.

 

[JasonH]

[Semantics.  The real crux of my statement was that it is hard to find good decisive action on behalf of our military and political masters in Ottawa.  Whether it be three clunky command structures for a shrinking Balkan deployment (increasing the tail over the tooth), having to beg for American equipment support and kit on combat operations in Afghanistan while at the same time being pestered from Ottawa for modifying issue kit to meet the task, or a plethora of other bureaucratic issues, you can see what my "naive" observation is directed towards....

Now that is much better, more articulate and (lol) more accurate.

@KevinB - I know what you mean.   But we don't pick our missions...otherwise we would have been in Iraq.

You can thank the prior PM for the decision to move the plans from Iraq to Afghanistan

 

[nULL]

...that and the 90%+ of Canadians who elect the politicians and ultimately determine foreign policy. If you'll remember the last election, Stephen Harper didn't seem to be too keen to push an Iraq agenda on Canadians.

 

[Infanteer]

...that and the 90%+ of Canadians who elect the politicians and ultimately determine foreign policy. If you'll remember the last election, Stephen Harper didn't seem to be too keen to push an Iraq agenda on Canadians.

Seeing how 90% of Canadians probably still couldn't find Afghanistan on a map, or 90% of Canadians never and still do not know that Canadians are serving in the Balkans, I wouldn't rely on the body politic for the final decision on foreign policy.

What we do need, and I feel was a large contributer to the debacle over Iraq, is a more clear and concise foreign and defence policy that is applicable for Canada's situation in the world.  We need the tie the two together in an effective way that supports are outlook and our capabilities.  We are still feeling the disruption of the late 90's, when Axworthy was taking Canada down it's regretful path as a "soft power" and the military was being ignored while throwing what it had left helter skelter.  The result is the current situation.