Spain and Portugal hit by Massive Power Outage

[GR66]

What we know about the massive power outage to parts of Spain and Portugal so far​

Power is out across large parts of Spain and Portugal, and already misinformation is spreading as to what caused the outage.

Some outlets are reporting a fire in the southwest of France is to blame, but French electricity providers have denied the claim. Portugal’s National Cybersecurity Center also said there was no evidence of a cyberattack being behind the power outages, state news agency LUSA reported.

While the exact cause remains unclear, governments have convened emergency meetings and electricity providers are working to restore power as soon as possible.

Here’s what we know so far:

• At about 12:30 p.m. in Madrid and 11:30 a.m. in Lisbon (6:30 a.m. ET), power went out across large parts of the Iberian Peninsula. Parts of France’s Basque Country were briefly affected, but not for long.
• The outages impacted trains, metro lines and international airports across the two countries.
• A Spanish electricity provider, Red Electrica, said it could take between six and ten hours to restore supplies to all customers, speaking to a local broadcaster on Monday.
• In Spain: Authorities requested that people minimize their movements and only call emergency services in the case of extreme emergencies. They also urged people to stay clear of the roads for emergency workers.
• In Portugal: Police have warned that traffic lights and street lighting are at risk of failing, asking drivers to avoid unnecessary journeys and pay extra attention on the roads. Travelers have also been asked to not travel to the airport by Portuguese airline TAP Air.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/power-outages-blackout-spain-portugal-04-28-25/index.html?t=1745852544830

No word yet apparently as to the cause but Portugal has apparently said it's not a cyber attack.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Some of the factors. A horrible warning for those paying attention.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Some of the factors. A horrible warning for those paying attention.

Wonder how much of a 'electricity bank' Spain has built into its system. I know that Ontario is expanding its ability to 'store' electricity coming from wind power in Ontario in a large substantial manner. Just wonder if its enough to make a difference in a situation like what happened in Spain.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Just wonder if its enough to make a difference in a situation like what happened in Spain.

If it's not, we should wonder how much it costs to not make a difference and how that money might more usefully have been employed to provide backup power generation from "traditional" sources.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Site C in BC is specifically designed to kick in to cover for the nearby windfarms with a .5 second generation start. Water is always flowing and just enough goes through the nozzles to have the turbines spinning slowly, allowing for almost instantaneous response.

Spain could stabilize their grid by the inclusion of SMR's at strategic points.

 

[Good2Golf]

Wonder how much of a 'electricity bank' Spain has built into its system. I know that Ontario is expanding its ability to 'store' electricity coming from wind power in Ontario in a large substantial manner. Just wonder if it’s enough to make a difference in a situation like what happened in Spain.

The storage of wind power is conceptually from a reduction of hydro offset, so it’s not really a storage in the 1st order sense, but a bit of a mug’s game of a 2nd order effect, describing a bias to maximizing /optimizing wind power and reducing hydro, feasibly leaving higher headwaters to use later when the wind power fall off peak production. It’s closer to a semantical back-up, than a true wind power to a magic place in grid-world back-up.

If it's not, we should wonder how much it costs to not make a difference and how that money might more usefully have been employed to provide backup power generation from "traditional" sources.

If you’re talking Ontario, then the system capacity is in overage and thus if the wind doesn’t blow (and sun doesn’t shine) demand is still met. Spend the money on what OPG (and partner provinces are doing) by building SMRs distributed throughout the grid(s) to provide generational resilience.

 

[lenaitch]

Some of the factors. A horrible warning for those paying attention.

Although it raises some valid points, the linked article reads more like a rant against wind and solar rather than an analysis of system resiliency and reliability. It's claim of 'inertia' has merit - to a point, but overloading turbines "spinning at thousands of rpms" (3600) trying to catch up will just likely cause them just to trip off-line as well.

The 'great northeastern blackout of 2003' was essentially caused by a series of relatively minor but cascading events.

Texas is a bit of a cautionary tale. When you purposely set your system up to be an island because you still think you are an independent republic comes at cost. They also had problems a few years ago during a cold snap where they grid wasn't 'hardened' enough.

The storage of wind power is conceptually from a reduction of hydro offset, so it’s not really a storage in the 1st order sense, but a bit of a mug’s game of a 2nd order effect, describing a bias to maximizing /optimizing wind power and reducing hydro, feasibly leaving higher headwaters to use later when the wind power fall off peak production. It’s closer to a semantical back-up, than a true wind power to a magic place in grid-world back-up.

Increasing headponds has its own issues, including dam design margins, environmental impacts, other water users, etc., particularly if their are multiple dams on a river system. Holding back more water 'just in case' leaves less capacity to absorb increased precipitation or run-off, which can originate a significant distance away.

 

[Good2Golf]

Increasing headponds has its own issues, including dam design margins, environmental impacts, other water users, etc., particularly if their are multiple dams on a river system. Holding back more water 'just in case' leaves less capacity to absorb increased precipitation or run-off, which can originate a significant distance away.

Indeed it does. I was referring more to the validity of the concept of OPG ‘storing’ the wind power generated ’somewhere.’ We’re not talking storage of GWh anyway, but something much less. I don’t have the numbers to calculate how many MWh/GWh each inch of headwater increase above nominal at Niagara’s Beck Dam would store, but for now, I think the idea of ‘storage’ of any output of electrical power generation would be limited to ‘enough to facilitate a smooth transition to inter-jurisdictional sources and/or managed, deliberate load-shedding/balancing,’ not ‘keep the grid up for a day or two’ with no more generation for that period. In the case of Ontario, the biggest load is taken by nuke then hydro, with wind solar and, if needed natural gas, as tertiary variable sources. Like Brad asks, [paralhrased] is the juice of ‘stored energy’ worth the ‘cost of storing it’ squeeze. In Ontario, I really don’t think so. Alberta for example? I don’t know. Last winter’s storm and brownout may make their calculus different than capacity sufficient/resilient Ontario.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I see it less as "storage" and more as establishing "preferred sources". We'd prefer to consume from renewable low-emission sources for which the "fuel" (wind, sun) is approximately "free", but it's impractical to rely too much on those. Elimination of backups rather than reducing usage is a mistake. What we should be aiming for is overcapacity based on renewables.

 

[Good2Golf]

I see it less as "storage" and more as establishing "preferred sources". We'd prefer to consume from renewable low-emission sources for which the "fuel" (wind, sun) is approximately "free", but it's impractical to rely too much on those.

‘Free’ when we ignore renewables’ infra capex…

Elimination of backups rather than reducing usage is a mistake. What we should be aiming for is overcapacity based on renewables.

Agree. OPG is here essentially less some out there black swan wallbangers, but SMGs will further bolster the nominal capacity and for all (many?) intents and purposes, they’re ‘renewable’…(dig for more for a period likely longer than civilization will take to blow itself up…

 

[lenaitch]

I don’t have the numbers to calculate how many MWh/GWh each inch of headwater increase above nominal at Niagara’s Beck Dam would store,

It depends on the flow rate (how fast it is released), dam efficiency and a few other things, but all of those being equal, according to this calculator about 10Kw per metre.

Ontario's big strength is nuclear for base load supply (~33%) followed by hydro (~24%) which is somewhat more flexible. Even for the 'environmentally-sourced' generation (hydro, wind, solar), grid capacity to move it around is important. In a province this size, they can move energy from the far north to compensate for deficiencies or limitations occurring in the south where most of the load is.

I don't know much about it but I have to believe the cost of battery storage, including the tech to rectify and invert between AC and DC, will continue to come down.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Increasing headponds has its own issues, including dam design margins, environmental impacts, other water users, etc., particularly if their are multiple dams on a river system. Holding back more water 'just in case' leaves less capacity to absorb increased precipitation or run-off, which can originate a significant distance away.

A good way to increase headpond is to have a series of smaller dams upstream of the main dam which can hold and retain water (Kemano Completion Project was an example of this, planned but not fully built out), which can then be fed into the main reservoir. Another way is similar to the Peace River, where you have the main reservoir upstream, the water release for environmental and power flows is then reused through two more generating dams that are "Run of the river" type, with much smaller reservoirs.

 

[lenaitch]

A good way to increase headpond is to have a series of smaller dams upstream of the main dam which can hold and retain water (Kemano Completion Project was an example of this, planned but not fully built out), which can then be fed into the main reservoir. Another way is similar to the Peace River, where you have the main reservoir upstream, the water release for environmental and power flows is then reused through two more generating dams that are "Run of the river" type, with much smaller reservoirs.

Agree, if the geology/hydrology allows. There are still environmental and FN issues along with other riparian users.