Surprise! Another example of pay being mis-handled.

[Hammer Sandwich]

I got this little gift yesterday in the mail.
(Names have been changed to protect the exquisitely incompetent).
_________________________________________________________________________________
XX Circus Battalion
PO Box ----- Stn Forces
Hallyflax, NS 90210

####-# (Rel Clk)

9 December 2010

SN# SN# SN#
Pte Sandwich H.
98 Address Cres.
Eastern Passage, NS

NOTIFICATION OF DEBIT BALANCE

1. An audit of your pay has revealed a debit balance of $234.16. This debit amount results from an over payment on your RPSR account

2. It would be appreciated if you would forward a certified cheque or money order; payable to the Receiver General of Canada, for the amount so that your pay account can be closed. If it is not convenient for you to forward payment in the full amount at this time, or if you have any question concerning the debit, please contact Cpl Bla Blablah, Release Clerk at ###-####

3. A pre-addressed envelope is enclosed for your reply.

(squiggly signature)
Some Guy I’ve never heard of
Lieutenant-Colonel
Commanding Officer

Enclosures: 1

Pre-addressed envelope
_________________________________________________________________________________

Wow.
Just wow.
Not only did you people repeatedly, and thoroughly bungle any administrative duties in relation to my time in the Reserves, you come back 2 goddamn years after I release, and ask me for more friggin money?
YOU NEVER EVEN SENT ME ANY RELEASE PAPERWORK!

Now I have to contact my bank, and get all my records since 2006, go through all that crap,  and then try to get copies/reprints of all of my statements from you, (which I’m sure will be like pulling teeth).

You’ll be lucky if I don’t use “envelope, enclosed, 1”, to mail you a cat poop.
Jackasses.

Merry Friggin Christmas, and screw you very much,

Hammer Sandwich

 

[dale622]

At least you got a letter! My Mrs. was recently informed that they were taking $6K of unpaid pensions. So 90% of her pay is being garnished by pay services. Merry f**king Christmas.

 

[armyvern]

OK. This and the fact the ResF pers are still getting screwed into waiting MONTHS to get paid while on tours and taskings highlights the fact that the Reserve Force Pay System should be a PRIORITY for the CF to sort the fuck out already.

Perhaps, in the spirit of the Holiday season, the good non-elected Senate will take up this actual PRIORITY issue forthwith and we may actually see something done to correct this widely-known problem that actually does affect lives by negatively impacting one's ability to feed, house and clothe one's family.

Mission first; troops always.

:brickwall:

 

[PuckChaser]

RPSR and the RegF system don't talk.... unless you owe RPSR money. Then it freezes your RegF pay account....

I waited 3 months to get my Cl C and Cl B pay sorted out, even after specifically leaving money in my bank account to cover the Cl B to Cl C mid month transfer. When I CT'd... another 3 months to get a pay account working that already existed in the system. Clerks could see it, get into it, do everything but actually turn my pay on.

You figure they'd get it right after how many years?

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

Perhaps, in the spirit of the Holiday season, the good non-elected Senate will take up this actual PRIORITY issue forthwith and we may actually see something done to correct this widely-known problem that actually does affect lives by negatively impacting one's ability to feed, house and clothe one's family.

Mission first; troops always.

That yellow stuff right there is about as well worded as it could be.
The clusterf-ck that was (and apparently still is) the Reserves pay system is effectively what prevented me from having any sort of career in the forces.

How so, you ask? Let us see;

-My wife had to borrow money to pay our mortgage while I was away on BMQ, as the pay was messed up, and the Aldershot OR wouldn't give me advances against my claim, even after I travelled to my unit OR back in Halifax, and had them call Aldershot OR to set an advance up.

-Once, after yet another pay period with no deposit into my account, I got a severe jacking up for asking where my pay was. I was told, QUOTE," You shouldn't just expect money to show up in your account every 15th & 30th...who the f-ck do you think you are, Private?"END QUOTE

Even though I had course offers aplenty, I sure as hell wasn't going to Borden for three months, possibly leaving my Wife and Daughter penniless, (again).

Reserve career, full stop.

Edit to add link to Civy Trading Post....guess the guitar's for sale now, too.....

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/97431.0.html

 

[OldSolduer]

You got a jacking for inquiring about your pay? Considering its the responsibility of each member to know their pay and allowances, I'd say you're in the right. Whoever jacked you....needed one themselves. Just the CSM side of me coming out.

Vern, you have it right. Troops always.

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

You got a jacking for inquiring about your pay? Considering its the responsibility of each member to know their pay and allowances, I'd say you're in the right. Whoever jacked you....needed one themselves. Just the CSM side of me coming out.

Darn tootin'.
That particular instance, alot of people didn't get paid, so I'm sure this Sgt had gotten sick of fielding inquiries about what happened to the money we were supposed to get, but IMO, that was no excuse for the attitude.

I got mine, though. I farted at the counter the next time I went to the OR. 8)
Take that!

 

[Old Sweat]

I've maintained for more years than I care to remember that the fastest and most effective way to fix the reserve pay system is to use it to pay the generals and full colonels and their equivalents in senior DND civilians.

 

[OldSolduer]

I've maintained for more years than I care to remember that the fastest and most effective way to fix the reserve pay system is to use it to pay the generals and full colonels and their equivalents in senior DND civilians.

And no one is going to jack them up for asking "where's my pay?"

 

[Task]

I am in complete awe. I honestly had no idea the reserve system was so bad. *POP  (my bubble)

My ignorance continues:
Why can't reserves be on the same system as us (regs)?
Has the ombudsman been told?
Are the senior Officers in the reserves on the same pay system?

 

[George Wallace]

I am in complete awe. I honestly had no idea the reserve system was so bad. *POP  (my bubble)

My ignorance continues:
Why can't reserves be on the same system as us (regs)?
Has the ombudsman been told?
Are the senior Officers in the reserves on the same pay system?

As a Reg you are paid for 365(6) days a year.  Your montly pay is for the whole month and paid on the 15th and end month.  Reservists are paid at 85% of Reg Force Pay unless they are on Class C which is administered by RPSR as Reg Force Pay (100%).

Then you have members who parade for half days and full days as Class A Reservists for approx four half days and perhaps four full days per month.  Class B Reservists are working full time (as 85% Reg Force Pay) for periods of 30, 60, 90, 180, three years, etc.  At the same time, a Class A Reservist may get a couple of days of employment to do some small job at a unit or a short tasking.  Once the Reservist goes away on a full time course, their pay is also changed.

There are supposedly rumours that the two pay systems may be merged, but you can already see the problems that the Pay System faces in keeping track of what a person will get paid as a Reservist.  Reg Force Pay is so simple compared to managing the Reserve System.

As for Senior officers in the Reserves; if they are Reservists, yes.

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

And no one is going to jack them up for asking "where's my pay?"

Haha, that would be something to hear...

"What the hell is your problem, sir?!?......You should have money saved up, just in case something like this is to happen...Sir.
You'll just get more on your next paycheck anyways, so stop bitching...Sir."

Oh, to be a fly on that wall.

 

[OldSolduer]

Interestingly our troops didn't get paid once. Of course when the pay staff was told of this, we were told "this is a part time job and the troops shouldn't be depending on this money". THEN, they stated that emergency payments are a lot of work for them blah blah blah.....
In short, once the RSM got involved....things changed. And so has the OR staff.

 

[chrisf]

Darn tootin'.
That particular instance, alot of people didn't get paid, so I'm sure this Sgt had gotten sick of fielding inquiries about what happened to the money we were supposed to get, but IMO, that was no excuse for the attitude.

No excuse. If they were sick of answering the inquiries, it meant there were a lot of inquiries, and somone should have been proactive and contacted the effective troops.

I can accept that if you start a contract, it's hit or miss if you'll get paid on the first pay period of said contract, depending on when your pay was entered, however, as of the following period, and all pay periods following such, it is quite reasonable to expect it to be there, and more importantly, unreasonable for it not to be there.

You have no idea how angry it makes me that this individual reacted this way. I can assure you, if I were to get the response, my reaction would be less than restrained.

 

[chrisf]

THEN, they stated that emergency payments are a lot of work for them blah blah blah.....

Reasonable Response:

"Oh, I'm sorry, I had no idea your lives were so difficult. You know what's a lot of work for everybody else? DOING THEIR GOD DAMN JOB AND NOT GETTING PAID!"

 

[dogger1936]

Same sorta B/S on the reg force side. My pay was going to be docked over 300 dollars as the clerks overpaid me on a tasking. I would have been 300 dollars short on this pay however I have a good relationship with their chief clerk and it will be taken off over multiple pays. I am very aware of my pay, however as a combat arms soldier I cannot forsee a clerical error.

I really can never understand how a clerks overpayment becomes my pay problem.

This has far from been the only episode in my career. Only thing has changed now as a Snr NCO compared to a NCM is they are polite when telling me their mistakes will affect my paycheck.

 

[ballz]

Reg Force story:

The first summer I went away for BMOQ, I was on TD and received incidentals, filed my claiim, and St. Jean sent the CLDA stuff a few months later. I was then told I would not be receiving the CLDA because I had already been paid incidentals for those days. I emailed back and asked why couldn't the incidentals be taken back and the CLDA paid to me, so that I would end up with the difference (the CLDA for 10 days in the field being much more than 10 days of 13 dollar incidentals). Of course, no reply, and I didn't get paid the CLDA. A difference of up to 200 dollars if IIRC. Being new and not wanting to cause a fuss at the OR or make a name for myself, I took a mental note to ensure it did not happen again. I would be fine without the 200 dollars.

This past summer, they put a sticker on the front page of my claim saying what days I was getting CLDA and for how much, and that it would be on it's way in the mail shortly. I pointed this out to the clerk when I handed it to him, as I did not want the stupid crap from last year happening again. So my TD claim goes through, I receive the money in the bank. The CLDA goes through, I receive the money in the bank. A few weeks ago, I get a call from the clerk, saying the 12 days I received CLDA for I was also paid incidentals for, and so now I owe 12 x $13 = $156 back.

Two things crossed my mind. 1. When I was owed money, nobody gave a shit. They took the easy route instead of doing their job and correcting the mistake, but when I owed money, they did their job because somebody from higher up told them I owed money.

and 2. I just can't win.

 

[Hammer Sandwich]

All of the posts above burn me up.
If there were any sort of pay issues akin to the issues described in this thread in a civillian job, heads would roll.

Jesus H Baldheaded Christ, I could work the Orange Julius stand at the friggin mall, and get paid on time, and probably the right amount, as well.

I realize that a large amount of people have to be paid at all sorts of different levels, with different caveats...etc, but that's why each unit has an O.R.

Screw it, I'm goin' to get drunk.

 

[chrisf]

The first summer I went away for BMOQ, I was on TD and received incidentals, filed my claiim, and St. Jean sent the CLDA stuff a few months later. I was then told I would not be receiving the CLDA because I had already been paid incidentals for those days. I emailed back and asked why couldn't the incidentals be taken back and the CLDA paid to me, so that I would end up with the difference (the CLDA for 10 days in the field being much more than 10 days of 13 dollar incidentals). Of course, no reply, and I didn't get paid the CLDA. A difference of up to 200 dollars if IIRC. Being new and not wanting to cause a fuss at the OR or make a name for myself, I took a mental note to ensure it did not happen again. I would be fine without the 200 dollars.

I don't know how CLDA works, haven't been paid enough of it since it came up to really care to look into it, maybe somthing has changed, but i can't imagine it's any different then FOA, any time I've been on TD, and went into the field, I received FOA for those days, not TD....

 

[Pusser]

Same sorta B/S on the reg force side. My pay was going to be docked over 300 dollars as the clerks overpaid me on a tasking. I would have been 300 dollars short on this pay however I have a good relationship with their chief clerk and it will be taken off over multiple pays. I am very aware of my pay, however as a combat arms soldier I cannot forsee a clerical error.

I really can never understand how a clerks overpayment becomes my pay problem.

This has far from been the only episode in my career. Only thing has changed now as a Snr NCO compared to a NCM is they are polite when telling me their mistakes will affect my paycheck.

It's not the clerk's problem either.  Our pay system is automated, which means the computer does the calculations and spits out the numbers.  It does this based on the inputs, which can come from many sources at any time without one clerk knowing what another clerk is doing, particularly when these clerks may be in entirely different parts of the country.  However, at the end of the day, when the numbers come up, the poor clerk has to deal with the disgruntled non-payee at the counter.  I'm not making excuses for the pay system (especially RPSR which is really screwed up) and any clerk, however senior, who refuses to help a member when things go pear-shaped is simply not doing his/her job.  There are always ways and means to resolve issues on the spot (e.g. casual payments if required).  You're entitled to your pay and you are entitled to it on time.  Having said that though, the regulations are quite clear that all members are to familiar with their rates of pay, allowances and entitlements and that they are to report under/overpayments immediately.  More often than not, you will keep the overpayment and you will simply receive less the next time - problem solved and you get an interest-free loan.  However, this seldom happens.  While I have seen dozens of people over the years show up at the pay office within minutes of being underpaid, I can count on one hand the number of folks I've seen report an overpayment in the last 20 years.  While I have a great deal of sympathy for someone who gets overpaid $10/mo for three years (which is VERY difficult to detect) and will work diligently to figure out a reasonable re-payment schedule, I have considerably less sympathy for someone who suddenly receives a $500 bonus and then gripes when we go to take it back.  I have almost no sympathy for folks who blow an entire advance on a claim before the trip even takes place.  When all is said and done, remember, an overpayment is not your money.  It's the taxpayer's money and as a taxpayer, aren't you glad there's someone out there looking after it? ;D