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Found this on another site
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,95568,00.html
What do you guys think?
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,95568,00.html
What do you guys think?
Thank you Canada
- Thread starter military granny
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I've been reading the discussion related to the "thank you" text and except for one poster (who is being rebuked constantly by both Americans and Canadians) it seems our brothers down south agree that we're doing a good job with what we have. I'm pretty pleased with the discussion in general, except for that one individual.
FormerHorseGuard
Sr. Member
- Reaction score
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http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060429/Thanks_canada060429/20060429?hub=Canada
Retired U.S. navy officer thanks Canada online
Updated Sat. Apr. 29 2006 11:28 PM ET
Canadian Press
OTTAWA -- A "thank-you Canada" posting on a much-visited American military web site has sparked a mini-debate that's largely complimentary to Canadians.
David Meadows, a retired American navy captain and an author of military fiction, posted his thank-you column in response to the deaths of four Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan on April 22.
"Canada is like a close uncle who constantly argues, badgers, and complains about what you are doing, but when help is truly needed, you can't keep him away: he's right there alongside you," Meadows wrote on the site military.com.
"We have a unique relationship with Canada. We have different political positions on many issues, but our unique friendship has weathered world wars, global crises, and the ever-so-often neighbourhood disagreement."
He notes Canada sent ships and rescuers south to the Gulf Coast in the wake of Hurricane Katrina in 2005 and to Florida after Hurricane Ivan struck in 2004.
Meadows says he was in the Pentagon during the 9-11 attacks, when the United States closed its air space and dozens of planes were diverted to Canada.
"Canada rapidly mobilized its forces," he writes. "Within hours, the Canadian Navy was on alert with ships preparing to cast off immediately for any U.S. port to help victims of the 9-11 attacks.
"Canada's Disaster Assistance Response Team prepared to deploy from Trenton, Ontario. Canada dispersed CF-18 fighter aircraft to strategic locations throughout Canada.
"No politics. No negotiating. No questions. They were just there. Canada would have fought any adversary that approached the United States that day."
He called the four dead Canadians "heroes" and concluded:
"Canada is more than a neighbour. It is a close family member with the gumption to disagree with its brother to the south but always there when disaster strikes and America needs help. For that, I salute you, Canada, and extend my respect for the sacrifices given by members of the Canadian Forces."
Meadows was a naval flier with 5,000 hours in the air. He also served aboard a number of surface ships. He has written nine military thrillers including Seawolf and Tomcat.
His essay was posted on military.com., a website that provides information on the U.S. military to serving members and the public, offers news and opinions on defence and security issues and claims six million members. Meadows is a regular contributor to its op-ed section.
A number of readers posted reactions, including a couple of skeptics.
One brushed off Canada's military efforts:
"A nation that has literally abandoned its own defence to live in the comparative comfort under the shield of Uncle Sam, then complains about how this defence is accomplished, is not a country that deserves such lionizing as this article has done."
Others were more supportive, including one who wrote:
"It's about time someone addresses the fact that although we don't always agree with Canada, and vice versa, they are always there for us."
Retired U.S. navy officer thanks Canada online
Updated Sat. Apr. 29 2006 11:28 PM ET
Canadian Press
OTTAWA -- A "thank-you Canada" posting on a much-visited American military web site has sparked a mini-debate that's largely complimentary to Canadians.
David Meadows, a retired American navy captain and an author of military fiction, posted his thank-you column in response to the deaths of four Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan on April 22.
"Canada is like a close uncle who constantly argues, badgers, and complains about what you are doing, but when help is truly needed, you can't keep him away: he's right there alongside you," Meadows wrote on the site military.com.
"We have a unique relationship with Canada. We have different political positions on many issues, but our unique friendship has weathered world wars, global crises, and the ever-so-often neighbourhood disagreement."
He notes Canada sent ships and rescuers south to the Gulf Coast in the wake of Hurricane Katrina in 2005 and to Florida after Hurricane Ivan struck in 2004.
Meadows says he was in the Pentagon during the 9-11 attacks, when the United States closed its air space and dozens of planes were diverted to Canada.
"Canada rapidly mobilized its forces," he writes. "Within hours, the Canadian Navy was on alert with ships preparing to cast off immediately for any U.S. port to help victims of the 9-11 attacks.
"Canada's Disaster Assistance Response Team prepared to deploy from Trenton, Ontario. Canada dispersed CF-18 fighter aircraft to strategic locations throughout Canada.
"No politics. No negotiating. No questions. They were just there. Canada would have fought any adversary that approached the United States that day."
He called the four dead Canadians "heroes" and concluded:
"Canada is more than a neighbour. It is a close family member with the gumption to disagree with its brother to the south but always there when disaster strikes and America needs help. For that, I salute you, Canada, and extend my respect for the sacrifices given by members of the Canadian Forces."
Meadows was a naval flier with 5,000 hours in the air. He also served aboard a number of surface ships. He has written nine military thrillers including Seawolf and Tomcat.
His essay was posted on military.com., a website that provides information on the U.S. military to serving members and the public, offers news and opinions on defence and security issues and claims six million members. Meadows is a regular contributor to its op-ed section.
A number of readers posted reactions, including a couple of skeptics.
One brushed off Canada's military efforts:
"A nation that has literally abandoned its own defence to live in the comparative comfort under the shield of Uncle Sam, then complains about how this defence is accomplished, is not a country that deserves such lionizing as this article has done."
Others were more supportive, including one who wrote:
"It's about time someone addresses the fact that although we don't always agree with Canada, and vice versa, they are always there for us."
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,95568,00.html
Thanks, Canada
David Meadows | April 27, 2006
On April 22, 2006 four Canadian soldiers were killed in Afghanistan by a roadside bomb. Respects and heartfelt sadness go to the families of those heroes who stand alongside the U.S. in the Long War half a world away. While we focus on the war in Iraq, the fighting continues in Afghanistan where side-by-side the U.S. and one of its most loyal allies, Canada, engage the re-emergence of the Taliban.
Canada is like a close uncle who constantly argues, badgers, and complains about what you are doing, but when help is truly needed, you can't keep him away: he's right there alongside you. We have a unique relationship with Canada. We have different political positions on many issues, but our unique friendship has weathered world wars, global crises, and the ever-so-often neighborhood disagreement.
Canada has been with us since the beginning of the Global War on Terrorism. In February 2006, without fanfare Canada, leading a multinational force combating growing Taliban insurgency, increased troop strength in Afghanistan to 2,300. With the American military stretched thin against rising instability in both Iraq and Afghanistan, an ally that increases its troop strength is inspiring and deserves our respect.
Katrina was another example of our close family-like relationship. Katrina struck the Gulf Coast on August 29, 2005. Two days later, the Vancouver Urban Search and Rescue Team rushed from British Columbia, Canada to Saint Bernard Parish, Louisiana. In this Parish of 68,000 Americans, the first responders were Canadians. Overall, within the devastated Gulf Coast area, it appears Canada was the first responder outside of local efforts. They worked 18-hour days, going door-to-door alongside Louisiana State Troopers, rescuing 119-Americans.
While FEMA ramped up to surge into the catastrophe; while the administration and Louisiana fought for the politically correct way to respond; Canadian aid was already at work.
The Canadian Forces Joint Task Group 306 consisting of the warships HMCS Athabaskan, HMCS Toronto, NSMC Ville de Quebec, and CCGC William Alexander sailed to the Gulf Coast to deliver humanitarian supplies. They stayed, working alongside U.S. Navy and Mexican warships, to provide aid to Katrina victims.
Katrina was not an anomaly of our close relationship. When Hurricane Ivan devastated Pensacola, Florida in October 2004 Canadian humanitarian help was there also. Canadian power trucks roamed the streets and countryside helping restore electricity where Americans had a unique experience of running into workmen who only spoke French.
Canada took a lot of undeserved flak for failing to leap into Operation Iraqi Freedom when our administration sent us galloping across the desert. But Canada remains one of our staunchest allies in the war. When United States military forces were fighting up the highways in Operation Iraqi Freedom, Canada quietly increased troop numbers in Afghanistan and continued Naval operations with U.S. warships in the Persian Gulf.
I was at the Pentagon on 9/11, stationed on the Joint Staff. During the early hours after the attack, the United States closed its air space and ordered every aircraft within our borders to land immediately at the nearest airfield. Canada immediately stood up an Operations Support Post.
With civil aviation grounded, aircraft destined for the United States were forced elsewhere. Most landed in Canada. Re-routed travelers and flight crews were hosted at Canadian Forces facilities in Goose Bay, Gander, and Stephenville, Newfoundland; Halifax, Shearwater, and Aldershot, Novia Scotia; Winnipeg, Manitoba; and, Yellowknife, Northwest Territories.
Canada rapidly mobilized its forces. Within hours, the Canadian Navy was on alert with ships preparing to cast off immediately for any U.S. port to help victims of the 9/11 attacks. Canada's Disaster Assistance Response Team prepared to deploy from Trenton, Ontario. Canada dispersed CF-18 fighter aircraft to strategic locations throughout Canada. No politics. No negotiating. No questions. They were just there. Canada would have fought any adversary that approached the United States that day.
Canada has been such an integral partner with the United States in the Global War on Terrorism that on December 7, 2004 when President Bush awarded the Presidential Unit Citation to Commander Joint Force South for combat success in Afghanistan, he was also recognizing the secretive Canadian Joint Task Force 2 commando counter-terrorism unit.
The U.S. Department of Defense has awarded 30 Bronze Star medals for heroism in combat to Canadian Forces personnel. Some of those 30 died in action. Many of the others were wounded. These Canadians earned this American medal for heroism fighting alongside Americans. When we recall our own dead heroes, we must remember that these warriors gave their lives not only for Canada, but also for the United States.
Canada is more than a neighbor. It is a close family member with the gumption to disagree with its brother to the south but always there when disaster strikes and America needs help. For that, I salute you, Canada, and extend my respect for the sacrifices given by members of the Canadian Forces.
About David Meadows
David E. Meadows is a retired mustang U.S. Navy Captain and the author of numerous military thrillers such as Sixth Fleet, Seawolf, AMERICA, and Tomcat. His eighth novel, JOINT TASK FORCE AFRICA, was released March 2005. He recently signed a 3-book contract with Penguin Group. His ninth novel, DARK PACIFIC, is due for release March 2006.
Meadows has spent nearly 10-years at-sea on a variety of warships to include USS Gearing (DD-710), USS Perry (DD-844), USS Mispillion (AO-105), USS Bainbridge (DLGN-25), USS Spruance (DD-963), and flying off a variety of aircraft carriers. He has over 5000-flight hours with aircrew wings in three different reconnaissance aircraft (EC-121M, EA-3B, & EP-3E) and Naval Observer Wings in the EP-3E. He has served ashore in Rota, Spain; Athens, Greece; Sabana Seca, Puerto Rico; Bureau of Naval Personnel; London, England; Norfolk, Virginia; San Diego, California; Corry Station-Pensacola, Florida; the Joint Staff; and his last tour of duty was as the Deputy Commander of Naval Security Group Command.
He has a Bachelor of Science degree in Arabic/Middle East Studies with a minor in French. David Meadows has a MBA and a MS in National Resource Strategy.
Thanks, Canada
David Meadows | April 27, 2006
On April 22, 2006 four Canadian soldiers were killed in Afghanistan by a roadside bomb. Respects and heartfelt sadness go to the families of those heroes who stand alongside the U.S. in the Long War half a world away. While we focus on the war in Iraq, the fighting continues in Afghanistan where side-by-side the U.S. and one of its most loyal allies, Canada, engage the re-emergence of the Taliban.
Canada is like a close uncle who constantly argues, badgers, and complains about what you are doing, but when help is truly needed, you can't keep him away: he's right there alongside you. We have a unique relationship with Canada. We have different political positions on many issues, but our unique friendship has weathered world wars, global crises, and the ever-so-often neighborhood disagreement.
Canada has been with us since the beginning of the Global War on Terrorism. In February 2006, without fanfare Canada, leading a multinational force combating growing Taliban insurgency, increased troop strength in Afghanistan to 2,300. With the American military stretched thin against rising instability in both Iraq and Afghanistan, an ally that increases its troop strength is inspiring and deserves our respect.
Katrina was another example of our close family-like relationship. Katrina struck the Gulf Coast on August 29, 2005. Two days later, the Vancouver Urban Search and Rescue Team rushed from British Columbia, Canada to Saint Bernard Parish, Louisiana. In this Parish of 68,000 Americans, the first responders were Canadians. Overall, within the devastated Gulf Coast area, it appears Canada was the first responder outside of local efforts. They worked 18-hour days, going door-to-door alongside Louisiana State Troopers, rescuing 119-Americans.
While FEMA ramped up to surge into the catastrophe; while the administration and Louisiana fought for the politically correct way to respond; Canadian aid was already at work.
The Canadian Forces Joint Task Group 306 consisting of the warships HMCS Athabaskan, HMCS Toronto, NSMC Ville de Quebec, and CCGC William Alexander sailed to the Gulf Coast to deliver humanitarian supplies. They stayed, working alongside U.S. Navy and Mexican warships, to provide aid to Katrina victims.
Katrina was not an anomaly of our close relationship. When Hurricane Ivan devastated Pensacola, Florida in October 2004 Canadian humanitarian help was there also. Canadian power trucks roamed the streets and countryside helping restore electricity where Americans had a unique experience of running into workmen who only spoke French.
Canada took a lot of undeserved flak for failing to leap into Operation Iraqi Freedom when our administration sent us galloping across the desert. But Canada remains one of our staunchest allies in the war. When United States military forces were fighting up the highways in Operation Iraqi Freedom, Canada quietly increased troop numbers in Afghanistan and continued Naval operations with U.S. warships in the Persian Gulf.
I was at the Pentagon on 9/11, stationed on the Joint Staff. During the early hours after the attack, the United States closed its air space and ordered every aircraft within our borders to land immediately at the nearest airfield. Canada immediately stood up an Operations Support Post.
With civil aviation grounded, aircraft destined for the United States were forced elsewhere. Most landed in Canada. Re-routed travelers and flight crews were hosted at Canadian Forces facilities in Goose Bay, Gander, and Stephenville, Newfoundland; Halifax, Shearwater, and Aldershot, Novia Scotia; Winnipeg, Manitoba; and, Yellowknife, Northwest Territories.
Canada rapidly mobilized its forces. Within hours, the Canadian Navy was on alert with ships preparing to cast off immediately for any U.S. port to help victims of the 9/11 attacks. Canada's Disaster Assistance Response Team prepared to deploy from Trenton, Ontario. Canada dispersed CF-18 fighter aircraft to strategic locations throughout Canada. No politics. No negotiating. No questions. They were just there. Canada would have fought any adversary that approached the United States that day.
Canada has been such an integral partner with the United States in the Global War on Terrorism that on December 7, 2004 when President Bush awarded the Presidential Unit Citation to Commander Joint Force South for combat success in Afghanistan, he was also recognizing the secretive Canadian Joint Task Force 2 commando counter-terrorism unit.
The U.S. Department of Defense has awarded 30 Bronze Star medals for heroism in combat to Canadian Forces personnel. Some of those 30 died in action. Many of the others were wounded. These Canadians earned this American medal for heroism fighting alongside Americans. When we recall our own dead heroes, we must remember that these warriors gave their lives not only for Canada, but also for the United States.
Canada is more than a neighbor. It is a close family member with the gumption to disagree with its brother to the south but always there when disaster strikes and America needs help. For that, I salute you, Canada, and extend my respect for the sacrifices given by members of the Canadian Forces.
About David Meadows
David E. Meadows is a retired mustang U.S. Navy Captain and the author of numerous military thrillers such as Sixth Fleet, Seawolf, AMERICA, and Tomcat. His eighth novel, JOINT TASK FORCE AFRICA, was released March 2005. He recently signed a 3-book contract with Penguin Group. His ninth novel, DARK PACIFIC, is due for release March 2006.
Meadows has spent nearly 10-years at-sea on a variety of warships to include USS Gearing (DD-710), USS Perry (DD-844), USS Mispillion (AO-105), USS Bainbridge (DLGN-25), USS Spruance (DD-963), and flying off a variety of aircraft carriers. He has over 5000-flight hours with aircrew wings in three different reconnaissance aircraft (EC-121M, EA-3B, & EP-3E) and Naval Observer Wings in the EP-3E. He has served ashore in Rota, Spain; Athens, Greece; Sabana Seca, Puerto Rico; Bureau of Naval Personnel; London, England; Norfolk, Virginia; San Diego, California; Corry Station-Pensacola, Florida; the Joint Staff; and his last tour of duty was as the Deputy Commander of Naval Security Group Command.
He has a Bachelor of Science degree in Arabic/Middle East Studies with a minor in French. David Meadows has a MBA and a MS in National Resource Strategy.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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Reading the article is certainly refreshing - as for the comments that follow it, well they are not nearly as bad as I thought they'd be when I first read Trinity's reply: The ranting about how useless the Canadian efforts are mostly originates from a single individual who will not budge despite the evidence presented against him. You'll always find someone like that.
Actually, this article would be of high interest to a whole bunch of students at my university. The fact that someone spells out the efforts of the CF's is doubly reinforced by the fact that the author is American. Despite this however, I believe that most students I'm referring to would adopt a position similar to that guy ranting in the discussion board, except reversed. A non-negligible proportion of students nowadays question the need for a military in the first place. Not so much in Engineering (as the majority there are simply not involved into politics/foreign affairs, hence they simply don't have an opinion on the subject) but the feeling is shared by a whole lot of Arts and Political Science students. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think they'd discard it at first sight because of that aspect that makes it especially interesting: it was written by an American. Yeah. There's a lot of anti-american feeling at the universities nowadays - but you all knew that already.
Meh.
Actually, this article would be of high interest to a whole bunch of students at my university. The fact that someone spells out the efforts of the CF's is doubly reinforced by the fact that the author is American. Despite this however, I believe that most students I'm referring to would adopt a position similar to that guy ranting in the discussion board, except reversed. A non-negligible proportion of students nowadays question the need for a military in the first place. Not so much in Engineering (as the majority there are simply not involved into politics/foreign affairs, hence they simply don't have an opinion on the subject) but the feeling is shared by a whole lot of Arts and Political Science students. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think they'd discard it at first sight because of that aspect that makes it especially interesting: it was written by an American. Yeah. There's a lot of anti-american feeling at the universities nowadays - but you all knew that already.
Meh.
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this is not helpful. Rather than respond to attackers who are obviously stupid, ignore them, and continue to do the Right Thing.knoxville said:
When you argue with an idiot, you lower yourself to his level, and he simply beats you with experience. After all, he has the home court advantage.
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mcchartman perhaps you could tell your students that the first thing the Taliban does is kill all the teachers and close the school down, stop the playing of music and what have you.
Then tell them we will always have a military in our country. Are or someone else's.
Then tell them we will always have a military in our country. Are or someone else's.
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Quagmire, I understand perfectly what you're saying. I realize that teachers, and especially those who are willing to risk their lives to educate young Afghan girls, are targets of the Taliban insurgents. But as I pointed out in my previous post, I am not entirely sure that my fellow students are willing to hear those arguments. Whenever you say something in favour of an armed response at university - WHATEVER the arguments you use, there is always this fraction of students who will pretend that it is but an excuse to dissimulate the government's supposedly hidden agenda. Now obviously, since this agenda is "hidden", they won't be able to tell you in what it consists exactly, but they are simply convinced that there is this hidden agenda.
It reminds me of the very recent accusations according to which the media ban at some official ceremonies is but an attempt to hide the realities of war from the public. Although I might be diverging from the subject a bit here, the principle is the same: A decision is made with a good intention, but the opposition just makes it their mission to twist the events and find another reason to bash the government.
It reminds me of the very recent accusations according to which the media ban at some official ceremonies is but an attempt to hide the realities of war from the public. Although I might be diverging from the subject a bit here, the principle is the same: A decision is made with a good intention, but the opposition just makes it their mission to twist the events and find another reason to bash the government.
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Roger that.
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have ya tried a swift throat-punch, then, laddie? Highly recommended amongst the circles paracowboy travels. Throat-punch an assclown, fresh dip, hot coffee, and we're off to a fine, fine day.mcchartman said:
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Actually, seeing how I'm trying to get in the military at the moment, now would not be the time to get involved in a fist fight - that's without mentioning that I have but one session left at the university and I wouldn't want anything to stop me from graduating in December. No, now wouldn't be the right time to put your throat-punch theory into practise. But I'll gladly take into consideration any other suggestion you might have.
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that was a joke. I do that sometimes. It's a terrible habit, but I just can't seem to break it.
Well done, though. Usually we end up having to explain to various butt-munches just why they shouldn't actually be starting fights. You're kind of a novelty.
Well done, though. Usually we end up having to explain to various butt-munches just why they shouldn't actually be starting fights. You're kind of a novelty.
- Reaction score
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Captain Ed article titled "Another Reason to Thank Canada".
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/
One point I missed in my review of United 93 yesterday is one of the lesser-known complications of our actions in grounding air traffic on 9/11. In the movie as in real life, FAA operations manager makes the decision to ground all aircraft immediately, ordering every plane in American airspace to land at the nearest airport. Despite the fact that it will cost the airline industry billions (and later created a large federal bailout package), Sliney knows it's the right action to take, and every plane in America was on the ground by 12:06 PM on 9/11.
One of the consequences of closing American airspace was the denial of landing rights to all inbound international flights. Sliney's decision made it necessary for those flights to return home, or if that could not be safely done, then to find somewhere else to land besides the US. Sliney had no idea if terrorists had more attacks coming from foreign airliners, and his decision was undoubtedly correct, despite the potential risk for the inbound flights.
Guess where a number of those flights went? Canada granted permission for these inbound flights to land despite watching the terrorist attack on the United States. It's not a widely-discussed part of the 9/11 story, but Canada took the risk of bringing those flights into their country without knowing whether the terrorists might strike at their nation as well. No one knew what other operations the terrorists had planned for that day; some could have decided to strike airports when planes taxied to their gates.
The Canadian action took courage and selflessness and it probably saved lives. It's just another reason to be grateful for our northern neighbors despite our occasional political differences.
One more thought: After Sliney gave the order, all of the flights complied with the grounding. It's not hard to imagine what would have happened to a flight that refused to do so. The movie doesn't address it, but one has to suspect that the Air Force would have shot down any plane that tried to stay up.
Posted by Captain Ed at 06:49 AM
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/
One point I missed in my review of United 93 yesterday is one of the lesser-known complications of our actions in grounding air traffic on 9/11. In the movie as in real life, FAA operations manager makes the decision to ground all aircraft immediately, ordering every plane in American airspace to land at the nearest airport. Despite the fact that it will cost the airline industry billions (and later created a large federal bailout package), Sliney knows it's the right action to take, and every plane in America was on the ground by 12:06 PM on 9/11.
One of the consequences of closing American airspace was the denial of landing rights to all inbound international flights. Sliney's decision made it necessary for those flights to return home, or if that could not be safely done, then to find somewhere else to land besides the US. Sliney had no idea if terrorists had more attacks coming from foreign airliners, and his decision was undoubtedly correct, despite the potential risk for the inbound flights.
Guess where a number of those flights went? Canada granted permission for these inbound flights to land despite watching the terrorist attack on the United States. It's not a widely-discussed part of the 9/11 story, but Canada took the risk of bringing those flights into their country without knowing whether the terrorists might strike at their nation as well. No one knew what other operations the terrorists had planned for that day; some could have decided to strike airports when planes taxied to their gates.
The Canadian action took courage and selflessness and it probably saved lives. It's just another reason to be grateful for our northern neighbors despite our occasional political differences.
One more thought: After Sliney gave the order, all of the flights complied with the grounding. It's not hard to imagine what would have happened to a flight that refused to do so. The movie doesn't address it, but one has to suspect that the Air Force would have shot down any plane that tried to stay up.
Posted by Captain Ed at 06:49 AM
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