The BHS

[Ex-Dragoon]

Ok we know this will have manning issues and we know it will not sail as much as other ships, so I am wondering would it be practical to make the LPD a Reserve ship? I know you guys as well are having manning issues but would it be more benficial to maybe get rid of the MCDVs and have you guys man this? Thoughts?

 

[navymich]

Ex-D, what's the complement on the BHS again?

One thing with the MCDVs though, is that with MARS IV training, there are portions that require more then one ship sailing (ex. deck evolutions, OOW maneuvers etc).  As well, the MCDVs also have other tasks and duties including route survey and BOIV ops.

 

[Stoker]

Ok we know this will have manning issues and we know it will not sail as much as other ships, so I am wondering would it be practical to make the LPD a Reserve ship? I know you guys as well are having manning issues but would it be more benficial to maybe get rid of the MCDVs and have you guys man this? Thoughts?

Perhaps get rid of 6 ships, and use the manpower to man the BHS. Of course, it will have to be a mixture of regs/reserves. By getting rid of 6 ships, it will be a source of spare parts for the remaining platforms and we could use some of the hulls for strictly alongside training, perhaps docking one alongside fleetschool Quebec.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

The LPD I think that meets our needs, The Gallicia class has about 130 in her crew.

Stoker considering the Kingston class will not have a mid life upgrade, then this might be a solution.

 

[NCRCrow]

Saw this on CNN, what a nice ship.

http://www.surfpac.navy.mil/new-orleans/

WOW!

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Saw this on CNN, what a nice ship.

http://www.surfpac.navy.mil/new-orleans/

WOW!

Nice but too expensive for our budget conscious government and military.

 

[NCRCrow]

Just a thought, maybe we could have them build three extra with the infrastructure already in place.

Politics/fiscal budgets/Commonwealth games/$$.......I know the rest 

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

not too mention 300+ crew

 

[NCRCrow]

have a mixture of reserve and reg..."Total Force Concept"

ONGUARD!

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Still would be a little excessive from a manpower POV.

 

[navymich]

have a mixture of reserve and reg..."Total Force Concept"

ONGUARD!

Not only manpower issue as Ex-D said, but how do you decide who does what and in what capacity?  You know as well as I do, that it will always be a shad vs. reg battle, who's senior, who knows what, who's the better suited for the job vice 85% suited.  MCDVs didn't have that trouble as the 2 reg force guys are trades that navres doesn't even have.  I think it would be great if both components worked side by side like that, but I honestly can't see it happening in the near future.

 

[NCRCrow]

It would not happen in all trades as some reg Navy trades have no NAVRES equivalent.

Look at 2 AD in Pembroke, they are a total force unit.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

It would not happen in all trades as some reg Navy trades have no NAVRES equivalent.

Look at 2 AD in Pembroke, they are a total force unit.

The whole problem with this BHS is that it is a one trick pony. It is an amphibious assualt ship period. Our frigates are multi purpose....therefore we can use them for patrols, ASW, AAW picket etc.
I think maybe the problems that FTSO was alluding to of Navy resistance has something to do with the fact that the Navy doesn't feel this is a flexible enough platform....it really is in support of the Army and doesn't address other areas of Naval operations.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Then perhaps the army should buy and crew the thing.

 

[FSTO]

Then perhaps the army should buy and crew the thing.

Then its dead  :blotto:

 

[FSTO]

The whole problem with this BHS is that it is a one trick pony. It is an amphibious assualt ship period. Our frigates are multi purpose....therefore we can use them for patrols, ASW, AAW picket etc.
I think maybe the problems that FTSO was alluding to of Navy resistance has something to do with the fact that the Navy doesn't feel this is a flexible enough platform....it really is in support of the Army and doesn't address other areas of Naval operations.

Well there is always mission creep. If it is a flush deck (carrier  >) type ship then there are all sorts of things that it will do (which has been outlined several times by the big man himself).
I am sure that as soon as the Navy gets the damn thing there will be all sorts of ideas on how to employ it.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Then perhaps the army should buy and crew the thing.

Then they will be bringing rocks aboard and painting them! Plus the Helo pilots will have to ask permission of the RSM to land on "his parade square"  ;D


edited to add RSM....sorry

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Then they will be bringing rocks aboard and painting them! Plus the Helo pilots will have to ask permission to land on "his parade square"  ;D

Funny...
FSTO you are right there is other stuff we could do with a ship that big...I suppose it could be a Command and Control platform too right?

 

[hugh19]

Well C&C for a landing yes. But not for a fleet. Hard to have your Task group commander stuck doing a landing while his ships are off fighting somewhere else.

 

[FSTO]

Funny...
FSTO you are right there is other stuff we could do with a ship that big...I suppose it could be a Command and Control platform too right?

It would have that capability, but I still believe the main C4 ships are the 280's (and their eventual replacements).

The real eye opener for me regarding Canada's inability to operate in the Littoral was OP TOUCAN 99-00.
The problems:
- While on our 10 day ramp up to move we loaded the kit that the R22 were going to use in Timor. It came all the way from a storage depot in Montreal and consisted of: the usual tents and other grunt gear plus winter gear and iltis parts (the jeeps themselves never left Canada)
- Upon arrival in Darwin we unload said gear, never to see it again until we reloaded for the trip home
- Not once being in radio contact with the Van Doos while in theatre
- Trying to launch the LCVP in calm seas and the swell smashing them against the ship side
- The LCVP being very underpowered and once beached the ramp's design was so poor that you still had to jump down about 3 ft to hit the beach
- Watching the Italians with their San Giorgio Class Amphib (with a flat deck that carried 3 Sea Kings and a couple of Hueys) launch, load and recover their landing craft effortlessly from their well deck
- Watching the French and Americans do the same thing
- Watching the Aussies mover our folks and their own troops with their own landing craft.

In fact we did a pile of watching and delivering fuel. By that I mean we rode our anchor in Dili harbor while Aussie landing craft came alongside with a couple of fuel trucks embarked to transfer fuel ashore. We could have done much more if we had the equipment that our allies had.

And if...if the Global Warming Crystal ball watchers are right and the worlds shorelines are flooded and the arctic has melted then having the capability to operate and support from the sea operations ashore will be very important.