The Canadian Airborne Regiment, 1968-1995 (merged)

[rdschultz]

Just in case anybody is interested, CBC Newsworld is running the documentary "Fall Out" on Rough Cuts this week. Its about the disbandment of the CAR, and some of the issues surrounding the whole affair. There isn‘t anything new or special about the program, especially if you‘re familiar with the whole thing, but it was interesting to watch.

It was on last night, but its listed as being on again. The guide on my TV says its on Sunday at 3am and 8pm CST. So it should be on at 1am and 6pm EDT.

EDIT: Actually, I checked again and the time its supposed to be on again has changed, according to my guide. Its actually 2am CST on Sunday, and I don‘t see a listing for the later showing. So basiclly, ignore everything I say about when its on and check for yourself, if anybody is interested in seeing it.

 

[Freight_Train]

It was interesting. **** shame that the Government of the day, not naming names, disbanded the Regiment.
Greg

 

[Slim]

A Completely inappropiate action...and done all out of proportion to what actually took place.

Some things to remember may be;

1. The government of the day were whining about how much the regiment cost to maintain shortly before the Somalia incident, however the political protection of the regiment by its civilian patrons hamstrung any government action.

2. There was a hue and cry about how "warlike" the CAR was by the fluffy, right-wing tree-huggers in federal politics at the time, but again, the CAR was saved by their patrons and so the Governmnent of the day could do nothing...until the Somalia scapegoat came along.

Lets face it; If we disbanded a Regt. everytime someone steps on their peepee, our army would be non-existent in no time at all.

And as an aside; I‘ve seen worse hazing in most colleges and universities than anything the CAR ever did.

Slim

 

[48Highlander]

Somehow I can‘t see a bunch of liberal tree-hugging university students suffering through the hazing which new recruits to the CAR had to endure, let alone anything worse. For instance, I‘m sure you heard about the manner in which jump wings were "pinned on" to new members, and I for one doubt very many civvies could handle that.

And no, I don‘t have anything against the CAR. It was a mistake to disband them, and just another example of the government shitting on the CF in order to present a more PC image.

 

[sgt_mandal]

I‘m curious about one thing, Which crisis was/is bigger? The prisoners in Iraq issue, or the prisoners that were in CAR custody?

 

[GrahamD]

That would really depend on who you are and where in the world you live.

If you mean what was a bigger crisis for the Canadian military, then the answer in my opinion is the Somalia incident, hands down.
The Americans treatment of their prisoners doesn‘t really have anything to do with Canada.

Or if you mean which is worse from a POW standpoint, well that would be harder to say. The Americans are holding a lot more prisoners. Yet the crisis for the CAR began when one prisoner ended up dying.
In my opinion at least, I would prefer to be led around naked on a leash, than to be dead.
So in that sense I would still give that crisis the edge.

The USA however has a more fragile global reputation, and from a public relations standpoint, when the Americans make a mistake like the one they are dealing with now, it seems to be blown way farther out of control by the global media (including their own).
In that sense, the Americans are dealing with a larger "crisis" than we did during the disbandment of the CAR era. Again, just in my opinion.

There are many more ways you could try to measure which incident is worse, but it really comes down to personal opinion.
If for example you were a member of the CAR, you would feel very differently than if you were a soldier in the US Forces.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Don‘t forget that there are about 30 deaths of people being detained that the American military is investigating.
There was also a suspicious shooting in Somalia that never really made the light of day.

 

[excoelis]

Some friendly advice:

If you weren‘t there for the ‘hazings‘ or Somalia then try not to speculate on what may or may not have happened.

The initiation rights were nothing like some of the bullshit I‘ve heard. I politely declined to stuff toilet paper up my *** and light it and nobody was stupid enough to force the issue. As a matter of fact I remember watching a Sgt tear the ******* hide right off a Cpl as he was about to run a batch of ‘FNGs‘ to the beer store - right in front of them!

Shootings??? Never really made the light of day? **** me!!!

Watch much X-files do we???

 

[Jungle]

Originally posted by 48Highlander:
[qb] Somehow I can‘t see a bunch of liberal tree-hugging university students suffering through the hazing which new recruits to the CAR had to endure, let alone anything worse. For instance, I‘m sure you heard about the manner in which jump wings were "pinned on" to new members, and I for one doubt very many civvies could handle that. [/qb]

Have you seen the Jack*** shows ? There was a guy (a spectator) in Montreal or Quebec City who, after the show, put his foot in the street for a city bus to drive over it. In front of TV cameras. Now take the same guy, and FORCE him to do the same thing... he will flip and say you‘re crazy.
Finally, the "Blood Wings" were an American practice. When awarded US Army wings, only those who requested it were given Blood Wings (from my experience...)

 

[48Highlander]

Really? I heard from an member of the Regiment that blood wings were standard practice for the CAR. Were you a member? If my info‘s wrong, I‘ll have to talk to that guy again...

 

[excoelis]

We had another saying:

First year you keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth ******* SHUT.

Second year you can start to ask questions.

By the third year you can start to answer the questions. How do you know the answers you ask??? See year 1 and 2 above.

 

[excoelis]

Were you a member?

BWAAAAAAHAAAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!

Incoming.........................

 

[Jungle]

Originally posted by 48Highlander:
[qb] Really? I heard from an member of the Regiment that blood wings were standard practice for the CAR. Were you a member? If my info‘s wrong, I‘ll have to talk to that guy again... [/qb]

I chose that avatar because I served. I spent seven years in the CAR, over two tours, from Pte to Sgt. After disbandment, I went on to serve another 5 years in a Para Coy, where I will more than likely end up again on posting next year.
I have witnessed the "atrocities" of the hazings, and Ex Coelis is right: there was a lot more said about them than what really happened... and nobody was forced to do anything. I have seen quite a few just walk away from it, without any consequences.

 

[48Highlander]

Ah. Yes, maybe I should check profiles before asking those questions

 

[Jungle]

Originally posted by 48Highlander:
[qb] Ah. Yes, maybe I should check profiles before asking those questions [/qb]

I strongly suggest you do just that. Now if any of you have questions about the CAR, feel free to ask (after conducting a search of the forums first). But if you never served in the Regt, DO NOT try to answer . As a matter of fact, same goes about any other subject.

 

[Old Cent Hand]

Disbanding the CAR , was a mistake . Some of the finest people I have ever worked with, were in the CAR. Now if there were pictures of dead Canadians , being dragged through the streets , by a jubilant Somali mob , the outcome would have been different.

 

[Slim]

Originally posted by Old Cent‘ Hand:
[qb] Disbanding the CAR , was a mistake . Some of the finest people I have ever worked with, were in the CAR. Now if there were pictures of dead Canadians , being dragged through the streets , by a jubilant Somali mob , the outcome would have been different. [/qb]

Although I have never served in the CAR, I have served with and am friends with, many who have.

Disbanding the CAR was a HUGE mistake and we, as a nation, are poorer for it.

Slim

 

[sgt_mandal]

What I was trying to get at, is if one death of a prisoner was enough to disband the whole CAR, then why not some very harsh or even equivalent consequences on the American side? Not just a jail sentence, but proper punishment so as they can guarantee it will never happen again.

 

[48Highlander]

It shouldn‘t have been enough. The government over-reacted. The incident in Somalia was, by all accounts, the fault of a handfull of members of the regiment. The incident in Iraq is in that respect much worse because at this point it seems to be an unofficial policy of systematic abuse of prisoners within the chain of command of that unit. So, if the handling of the Somalia incident had been fair, then the incident in Iraq should be more than enough to justify disbanding THAT regiment. However, the CAB shouldn‘t have been disbanded. That decision had nothing to do with justice, it was merely the governments way of avoiding criticism. I think it was the beggining of the politicaly correct movement which has totaly transformed the army over the last decade. And I don‘t think the US unit deserves to be disbanded either, but they do need to make some SERIOUS changes.

 

[Roger]

Originally posted by 48Highlander:
[qb] Really? I heard from an member of the Regiment that blood wings were standard practice for the CAR. Were you a member? If my info‘s wrong, I‘ll have to talk to that guy again... [/qb]

Blood wings! Where did you get that, I never saw the practice in Canada, but I only know from the 70‘s, it is an American tradition. And what does that have to do with the CAR.

You can alway`s go to a sight where ex CAR guy`s hang out. www.commando.org