The right NOT to vote

[a_majoor]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078640874X/qid=1136584492/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-0411949-1046360?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

Dissenting Electorate: Those Who Refuse to Vote and the Legitimacy of Their Opposition
by Carl Watner (Editor), Wendy McElroy (Editor)

Book Description
It's the same message every election year: "Get out and vote-It's your civic duty." Those who audit the sound bites of the candidates, read headlines about the debates and finally pull the lever at their local precinct are touted as moral, upstanding citizens; those who find among the candidates no agreeable representative, no platform worthy of espousal, and who then refuse to turn out on election day, on the other hand, are labeled apathetic and the legitimacy of their opposition is denied. This book is an anthology of articles and excerpts from a variety of sources that deal with the topic of nonvoting. In presenting the minority view that important moral and political reasons abound for not voting, the book unfolds four general arguments: voting is implicitly a coercive act because it lends support to a compulsory state; voting reinforces the legitimacy of the state; and existing nonpolitical, voluntarist alternatives better serve society. Many people do not agree with the concept of nonvoting-but the serious and well thought through underpinnings of such a belief are of crucial importance to an understanding of modern American politics

I personally have little time for people who won't vote, but there are some aspects of the argument above which the small l libertarian in me find attractive (particulary number four:existing nonpolitical, voluntarist alternatives better serve society) .

 

[rifleman]

I never understood this duty to vote thing. I would say if you do not vote, it is a stronger message than voting for the lesser evil. What would be interesting if they added a "none of the above" vote.

The other line is " If you didn't vote you can't complain." Why not?

 

[Scott]

"None of the above" can be signified by spoiling your ballot.

Check out the laws in Australia where you are required by law to vote. You will be fined if you do not cast your ballot.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

"Spoiling your ballot" is a criminal offense.....

 

[armyrules]

I'm not sayoing this directly to rifleman its more general.
I think that if you do not vote then you have  no right to bitch about how this country is being ran because you did not put your say in. So if you did not care about voting or care about how this country is being taken care of then keep your opinion to yourself.  So get out there and have a say now if you are doing something that prevents you from voting like your job thats one thing but if the person is just to goddamn laxy then that is their problem!! Sorry about the rant

 

[chrisf]

"Spoiling your ballot" is a criminal offense.....

But if it's a secret ballot, who'd know?

 

[rifleman]

I'd rather see a low turnout of informed voters than see everyone out voting for a party they and theirs have always voted for.

the statement of no vote, no complaining is like saying "you voted for the party that didn't get in, so stop complaining and support the government that did."

 

[George Wallace]

the statement of no vote, no complaining is like saying "you voted for the party that didn't get in, so stop complaining and support the government that did."

I don't understand your logic.  If I vote and my say/vote is for the losing party, I feel I have the right to complain.  I also feel I have a right to complain if the party that I voted for wins and they do something that I don't agree with.

If I or anyone doesn't vote, I and/or they are apathetic and go along with the popular faction that is running the country, province, municipality, etc., and therefore am/are happy with the way things are run and thus HAVE NO NEED TO COMPLAIN.  Key word there is HAVE no need to complain, as I/you ACCEPT the way things are being run and don't feel the need to vote (nor complain).

Personally, I am not happy with the way things are always run and will go and exercise my right to vote.  That way I will not feel like a hypocrite should I complain in the future about the direction the country, province, and municipality are going.

 

[bubba]

Nice reply JASO,i was thinkin the same thing.IMO spoilin the ballets just show's how much a voter dislikes all the parties.Come to think about it i don't recall much about what either party is gonna do for the average citizan,i just here how they hate each other.Personally i'm hopen for a minority govornment in order to keep all RULING parties in check.Hopefully theres a good voter turnout this year ???

 

[rifleman]

I don't understand your logic.  If I vote and my say/vote is for the losing party, I feel I have the right to complain.  I also feel I have a right to complain if the party that I voted for wins and they do something that I don't agree with.

The logic is that everyone has the right to complain and act when they don't like what the government is doing. I just don't feel that people should have to vote. It may not be because they are happy with the Status Quo, it could be they see that it doesn't matter what government is in power.

As for civic duty it can be satisfied through volunteering, jury duty or serving in the a public capacity etc..

 

[George Wallace]

Who are the CANADIAN SHEEPLE?

They are the people of Canada, who have the legitimate right to vote, but are so apathetic that they don't feel the need to vote, as they will go along mindlessly, following whatever decision others have made for them.  They will blindly follow those that others have elected as leaders.  Ignorant of what those persons may have as agendas.  They don't exercise their right to vote for someone they think would be a better leader, or if they do they ignorantly spoil their ballot with the impression that it somehow is a 'protest' of the current system, rather than a piece of paper that has simply been circular filed.  

What purpose do Sheeple serve?

None.  They are mindless and susceptible to easy manipulation, 'content' with their petty lives.  No initiative.  Food for 'Wolves'.

 

[George Wallace]

The logic is that everyone has the right to complain and act when they don't like what the government is doing. I just don't feel that people should have to vote. It may not be because they are happy with the Status Quo, it could be they see that it doesn't matter what government is in power.

As for civic duty it can be satisfied through volunteering, jury duty or serving in the a public capacity etc..

So I will say it again:

If I or anyone doesn't vote, I and/or they are apathetic and go along with the popular faction that is running the country, province, municipality, etc., and therefore am/are happy with the way things are run and thus HAVE NO NEED TO COMPLAIN.  Key word there is HAVE no need to complain, as I/you ACCEPT the way things are being run and don't feel the need to vote (nor complain).

I take it you subscribe to the SHEEPLE philosophy of life in Canada.  You will simply do as told, apathetically accepting everything, and not interested in making change if the opportunity arises for you to do so.  To me any complaint from someone who had the opportunity to have a say but didn't exercise that right, is falling on deaf ears.  They accepted the decision of others, having had an opportunity to provide input, but didn't and then decide to Bit ch about it later.......I know guys like that in the Unit......they are not looked upon very highly.....Is that what you are promoting? 

 

[winchable]

I'd like to preface all of this, by saying that I am voting and vote in every election, I'm just spinning ideas to generate (hopefully) good debate:

If someone is "informed" and chooses not to vote because they disagree largely with all of the parties direction, is that worse than someone who votes (actual quote from my younger sister, a first time voter):
"Because everyone at Dal says the ______ are the best.",
I'll let you fill in the blank. (I sat her down and counselled her by the way)

They're both forms of apathy, and personally I think the former is less dangerous than the latter because an uninformed voter can have an impact (negative or positive, it's all subjective as far as who wins) whereas an informed non-voter has no impact (either way) on the outcome.
They're both "sheep" (as you rightly put it) to a certain extent, the problem is the un-informed sheep turn out in droves to vote in a party they were told to vote for by some weird social pressure.

It's impossible to get a party that represents everything you feel, for most of us, but we vote because a certain party represents our general ideas and where we want the country to go, but if a person feels strongly that no party represents them at all it seems very much against the idea of a liberal democracy to force them, guilt them or shame them into voting.

But perhaps they have an agenda, and want change; Do they: Vote for the ruling party and voice their concerns (as you would say) legitemately because they voted but perhaps compromising their principles by (technically) supporting what they don't believe in; Vote for an opposition party, saying they want change but also compromising (lets assume) many of their principles;

 

[Kat Stevens]

As I understand it, I cast my vote for the benefit of myself and all Canadians.  It is not my duty to empower the least offensive choice, close enough for government work doesn't cut it here.  If, (not saying I do) I  find absolutely none of my choices pallatable, THAT is a wasted vote.  when I go truck shopping, I don't just buy the best of a bad selection, and this is much more important.  If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

 

[Danjanou]

The D9er and were out for dinner with friends on Sat and our host was also former CF. Naturally the dinner conversation turned to the election (hey it was either that of the pummeling the Leafs were taking on TV).

I’ve become a firm believer in the Australian idea of fining non voters. Since I’ve been eligible to vote I’ve only failed to exercise my franchise right only once (municipal, provincial, and/or federal) as I was out of the country for both advance and regular poles.
(BTW it was the Ontario Election that brought in Bob Rae so you can all blame me). Some of those times I’ve held my nose or even spoiled my ballot, but I’ve gotten off of my ass and gone down to the polling station and voted.

My host’s argument against enforcing voting was it could lead to  an influx of misinformed and ignorant voters, which is a valid point. Although one could argue that’s the case now especially if one considers the other people in my home city/province and their track record.

It seems however that is correctable. My partner at work has a couple of teenagers and she was telling me that they’ve been getting a lot of civics classes because of the election. If this was again to become part of the education process and as long as it was professionally done with no politically correct biased indoctrination (Mike Harris/Stephen Harper bad, because my Teachers Union says they are BS) then perhaps in a generation we could have close to 100% turnout of educated and informed voters which would result in accountable politicians no longer able to screw us over and the government and country we deserve.

Sorry I was dreaming there for a second, forgot where I was. Oh well never mind.
8)

 

[bubba]

I got a ques for yas who is making the bigger statement,A/the guy who really doesn't understand the party platforms but votes for a party because his buddy ,teachers,coworkers says that party is better.B/the guy who is tired of bullshit politics, parties and candidites that don't represent him so he spoils the ballad.Both are exersicing there right to vote.      I am really intrested in your opinion George W. After reading your posts. :warstory:

 

[George Wallace]

I got a ques for yas who is making the bigger statement,A/the guy who really doesn't understand the party platforms but votes for a party because his buddy ,teachers,coworkers says that party is better.B/the guy who is tired of bullshit politics, parties and candidites that don't represent him so he spoils the ballad.Both are exersicing there right to vote.      I am really intrested in your opinion George W. After reading your posts. :warstory:

If I decipher your post, you are asking two questions.  The First Question you are asking is to the effect that a guy who doesn't know or understand any of the party platforms, but votes on what someone else says favoring one party; then I would say he/she is a SHEEPLE.  It really doesn't take much time or effort to do some research into what each party is standing for.  You, I assume, (and you know what they say about assume) have at least seen some of the Election Ads, debates, news articles, etc., and have some sort of intelligence.  You and all Canadians should be able to make some sort of informed decision when you go to cast your vote. 

Claiming ignorance of the politics of the country is escapist.  If that is the case, then SHEEPLE is what would describe persons claiming ignorance of the policies, or parts thereof of the policies of these Parties.

I think that you are asking another question in stating that a guy who is tired of the current situation in government and spoils his ballot is also exercising his right to vote.  I would say that he is again SHEEPLE.  Why?  He is tired of the current people in power, but when given the opportunity to change it, he throws it away by spoiling his only chance to change it, and in turn allow the system to remain unchanged.  If he wants change, then he should exercise his right to change it.  Spoiling a ballot is not a protest.  It is a waste of a ballot.  It is a waste of his time.  It has no effect on the outcome of the election, and perpetuates the things that he supposedly dispisses.......or is willing to accept through apathy.............SHEEPLE!

 

[2 Cdo]

Sorry to all the folks who say "You have to vote or you have no right to complain!" but when did we become a dictatorship where you WILL vote regardless of how you feel? If I don't like anything being served at dinner, I don't eat dinner. But using your logic I now have no right to complain about the meal choices!

The idea of fining a person for exercising their right to NOT vote would probably fly nicely with the socialist hordes who wish to manage EVERY aspect of your life. If I choose not to vote and the government screws up I still have a right to complain. To state that you must vote in order to voice an opinion is asinine, I still think that Canada is a democracy, isn't it?

 

[dutchie]

Not voting is largely seen as an "I don't care message", not some glorious and self-sacrificing statement about the lack of viable options. If you want to make the statement that you feel there are few legitimate options, vote for a fringe party, ie-Rhino, Marijuana, Green, that hard-right Christian party, etc.

One of the things that the media and politicians pay attention to is voter turn-out. You'll hear catch-phrases like 'voter-apathy'. In most cases, a low voter turn-out is attributed to the electorate (ie-you and I) not being engaged (ie-don't care). It is the spoiled ballots (a criminal offence as has been mentioned) that most regard as protest votes.

To not vote is the equivalent of laying down and taking whatever comes, silently. I have zero patience for those that choose not to exercise the right for which many Canadians have died to retain. As well, millions the world over have died in the unsuccessful fight to attain that right.

 

[2 Cdo]

Okay comrade! Do we still have freedom of choice in Canada? You apparently think we should remove it! Unlike yourself I don't begrudge anyone their CHOICE whether to vote or not! I have zero tolerance for people who vote without knowing anything about the candidates or the parties!(Which equates to the average Canadian) You seem to want to put these types of voters on a pedestal, while expressing your lack of patience to anyone who CHOOSES not to vote! That would explain the last 13 years of corruption we have had to deal with!

By the way I also vote, and have since 1984. I just like playing devils advocate with people who wish to remove a right (vote or not) and replace it with a law. I guess some people like the idea of more government and more laws!