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The roll of the state & elites (Split from: How Will You Vote 2006?)

a_majoor

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Consider how C.S Lewis viewed the modern state:

But Lewis himself feared the modern state. In an essay that deserves to be better known, "Is Progress Possible? Willing Slaves of the Welfare State," Lewis argued that the state no longer exists to "protect our rights but to do us good or make us good — anyway, to do something to us or to make us something. Hence the new name 'leaders' for those who were once 'rulers.' We are less their subjects than their wards, pupils, or domestic animals. There is nothing left of which we can say to them, 'Mind your own business.' Our whole lives are their business."

Sounds like he predicted the Liberal party's version of the Nanny State. Does this sound like some sort of place you would like to live, do business or raise children? Think carefully before you vote.
 
My daughter came back from riding lessons on Saturday with a sore back and blisters on her hands and happy as a clam.   Bear with me here.

She had been given a new horse.  The old one was something of a mobile armchair for beginners.  It plodded around the arena, took corners and jumps in its own time and had to “urged” to break into a walk.  The new one took off like a scared cat at a slight pressure of the knees and had to be held in check through out the ride.  Hence the sore back and blistered hands.

In C.S. Lewis’s day a “ruling class” still existed.  In Britain today they are over-represented in what is derisively referred to as the “horsey set”.  In the past, up to and including C.S. Lewis’s time the children of that class were expected to learn how to handle a horse and a pack of dogs.  In earlier days they were also expected to learn how to handle a fighting tail, a company of soldiers.

The standard of excellence expected of them was not to create a gentle horse, a docile pack or a good-looking guard.  The standard of excellence expected was their ability to ride a “spirited” horse, not a broken one; to control a pack that had to be “whipped in” to stop it chasing off wildly in all directions, not one that had to be driven after the prey; a fighting tail, or regiment, that did not have to be prodded to the fight but rather one that had to be held back from the fight through imposed discipline.

In short they were encouraged to see the advantage in wolves, not sheep.  They were given the underlying message that “spirit” needs to be nurtured, not broken.  They learned that "spirit" was innate, if not necessarily universal; that it was desirable; that it was fragile; and that once broken is hard to reassemble.  They learned that it is ultimately easier to advance curbing an energetic society than it is trying to prod a docile one. 

My daughter learned that lesson today.

Unfortunately that process of “curbing”, “whipping in”, “disciplining” is unlikely to win any friends.  At best it might be tolerated if done with a light hand and food is regular.  Under those circumstances the “ruler” might be tolerated.

As anti-democratic as these sentiments may sound, and I have no desire to either curb or be curbed (and yet I do and am), there is something to be said for Lewis’s observation.  Is the price of “Peace, Order and Good Government” docility? Is that too high a price to pay?
 
I would argue that if anything this is a less docile society than that of the ruling class.  Your idealistic portrayal of Victorian Great Britain, does very little to speak of all of the other social ills, that resulted from having a bunch of inbred sots run the place.  Concepts such as the rotten borough, certainly, had nothing to do with curbing spirit but with ensuring that people who had the good fortune of being begat by the proper people, continued to run things.  It was their emphasis on "spirit" and the "proper" way of doing things that led to upper class dolts, based on a emphasis on genetics vice skill and ability, being given responsibility (Lord Cardigan) for which they had no aptitude.

The price of living in any society, is the realization that certain desires must be sacrificed for the benefits which it gives.  The price of "Peace Order and Good Government" or even "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness", is the relinquishment of one form of liberty for another.  This poses not a problem in the age of the modern state, at least in terms of a liberal one, as we conspire through our elected representatives to define the social contract under which we live.
 
One of the great myths about the "upper class", successfully propogated by themselves in the name of stability and control, was that it was an immutable organization.  In fact, the "upper class" regularly took in anybody that could scrounge enough money, legally or illegally, to join their ranks.  Once they met that test they were absorbed and became indistinguishable from the rest.

This way they  appropriated those of the "them" that were successful and turned them into the "us".  This tended to reduce the ability of the "them" to organize successful revolutions.

The same thinking went into the reform process that continually but gradually increased the electorate.  Every time some of "them" felt that they were not being listened to and started to organize and rouse support they were taken aside and informed that after due consideration it was determined that they were not like the common rabble they were rousing and that they were eminently qualified to join the club.

More took the bait than didn't.  The "ruling class" kept expanding, being fuelled by a constant supply of "overachievers".  ;D

Of course then came WWI.

The point of my intervention was not to suggest a return to the era of the ruling class.  It was more to suggest that they might have known something about man-management and society.

Everything is balance.  Aggression and docility.  Curb and whip.  Freedom and Restraint.
Cheers.
 
It is certainly important to work towards our ideals, as well as being aware of the effects lack of moderation could induce. Certainly our elections draw fewer and fewer people to actually vote since the ruling ideal of Canada seems to include having things run by an unelected and unaccountable Oligarchy. I'm sure there are lots of Supreme Court rulings the more knowledgable could quote, but a practical example is right here in London:

The Ontario Municipal Board has ordered the City of London to change its electoral boundaries and the composition of City Council against the wishes of the city, and in favor of a small group which has been agitating for the change. While I will grant the City hasn't dealt with the issue very effectively, it is really the responsibility of the electorate to make their wishes known, and if a majority of voters had wanted the ward boundaries to be changed, then they would have agitated the councilors and perhaps made it an election issue.

The OMB is an appointed body, none of the members to my knowledge live or work in the city, and short of a contrary ruling by the Premier, I don't believe there is any appeal from an OMB decision.

Is this the ideal WE want to work towards?
 
Here are the results of the experiment to the south, where the role of the state (or at least its tax burden) is considerably reduced:

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_luskin/luskin200601090951.asp

Even a Zombie Can Understand It
Keeping tax rates where they are does not equate to a tax cut.

According to Paul Krugman, America’s looniest liberal pundit, “there is no longer any coherent justification for further tax cuts. Yet the cuts go on.” In a recent New York Times column he wrote that “Republicans have turned into tax-cut zombies. They can’t remember why they originally wanted to cut taxes … they just keep shambling forward, always hungry for more.”

When the Republicans shamble back to Washington later this month after Congress’s holiday recess, we’ll see just how wrong Krugman is — on every count.

For one thing, last year’s unfinished 2006 revenue reconciliation bill, which Congress will have to deal with promptly in the new session, isn’t about “further tax cuts,” or even “tax cuts” at all. It’s about keeping tax rates just where they are. If today’s tax rates on dividends and capital gains aren’t extended, then the capital gains rate will jump by as much as a third and the dividend rate will more than double in tax years after 2008.

But we shouldn’t be surprised that Krugman calls keeping tax rates where they are “cuts.” He bemoans the “cruelty” of the “mean-spirited spending cuts” in the latest budget bill — which has federal spending growing by more than 51 percent over the next five years.

And Krugman is wrong if he thinks the Republicans who originally enacted today’s tax rates are zombies. They know precisely why they put lower dividend and capital gains rates in place in 2003, and why the reconciliation bill must extend them past their current 2008 horizon.

For example, I asked Rep. John Boehner, the Ohio Republican whose hat is in the ring to succeed Tom DeLay as House majority leader, if he considered himself a tax-cut zombie. “No,” he said, “extending the cap gains and dividend rates is critically important for investments in our economy. Moving that horizon out is the most important part of the bill, because what investors want is certainty. I think we’ll unleash more investment.”

Boehner is precisely right — and all the economic evidence supports his position. Consider payroll jobs. Coming out of the recession that began in early 2001, the total number of payroll jobs hit its very low the month the 2003 tax cuts on dividends and capital gains were enacted. Since then, the economy has added 4.6 million new jobs.

After a savage bear market that ended shortly after the 2003 tax cuts were proposed, and shortly before they were enacted, the S&P 500 now stands at highs not seen in more than four-and-a-half years. The total return to stock investors from the day the tax cuts were signed into law has been 41.3 percent.

Glossing over all that reality, Krugman kvetches that there has been only “a partial recovery in federal tax receipts from their plunge between 2000 and 2003.” That’s simply a lie. Today, federal tax revenues stand at all-time highs. According to the U.S. Treasury’s latest monthly statistical report, November tax receipts were $138 billion. Add that to the previous 11 months, and you get a trailing 12-month total for tax receipts of $2.2 trillion. That’s the largest amount ever collected in a 12-month period. In fact, receipts have been setting records every month since last August, when we first surpassed the $2.1 trillion record set in April, 2001.

But Krugman continues to whine: “Revenue remains lower, and the federal budget deeper in deficit, than anyone expected a few years ago.” Anyone? That just can’t be true. Someone, I’ll grant you. For example, the Congressional Budget Office, in it’s August 2002 Budget and Economic Outlook — written before the 2003 tax cuts had even been proposed — expected $2.224 trillion in revenues for fiscal 2005 (the fiscal year ended last September). In a recent budget update (October 6), CBO estimated fiscal 2005 revenues at $2.154 trillion. So, for this “someone” at least, yes, revenues remain lower than expected. But barely — only by $90 billion, or about 4 percent.

But let’s dig deeper into CBO’s analysis. Back in that 2002 report they estimated fiscal 2005 GDP to be $11.936 trillion. In fact, it turned out to be $12.308 trillion — $372 billion higher. So let’s put these numbers together. We get $90 billion less than expected in tax revenues. We get $372 billion more than expected in GDP. That’s a terrific deal, if you ask me.

So while Krugman derides supply-side economics as “hokum for the yokels,” all the evidence points to the reality that lower tax rates do lead to faster economic growth. And to exaggerate a bit as Krugman himself might do, there isn’t “anyone” who seriously disagrees with that. For example, in a New York Times column last week, economics reporter Daniel Altman crowed about a recent CBO study that purported to show that tax cuts don’t fully pay for themselves in increased revenue. But in the 14 scenarios examined by the CBO, all but one showed gross national product increasing after a 10 percent across-the-board tax cut.

Why does it work? Because, as Boehner puts it, “The problem is the government is too big and takes too much money out the economy and leaves too little for investment in the future.” You want a bigger, faster-growing economy? Then cut taxes — or at least leave them at low levels, like the Republicans in Congress are trying to do.

It’s so simple, even a zombie can understand it. Leftist economics professors like Krugman, though, are another matter.

— Donald Luskin is chief investment officer of Trend Macrolytics LLC, an independent economics and investment-research firm. He welcomes your visit to his blog and your comments at [email protected].
 
  http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_luskin/luskin200601090951.asp
       

 
OK, I am far from an economics whiz, so please bear with me.

But isn't using the U.S. Republican policy as a example of good economics a bad idea when their national debt has risen to over 8 trillion dollars?

I mean, aren't they going to have to deal with that at some point??

 
The National Review supports lower taxes and in other news the sun continues to revolve around the earth, film at eleven.

The roll of the state in any enterprise, be it the economy, welfare, defence, etc should be determine by the electorate.  Trickle-down economics, may produce greater wealth, but at the end of the day one must also question, the social cost of those policies.  The invisible hand is far from benign, and there are costs to any economic option.  The appropriate course of action should be best determined by the electorate and not by elites.  One can argue that  the Privy Council in and of itself constitutes an elite, but it is one that is accountable to the electorate.  Perhaps under a first-past-the-post system, and electoral units divied up under the plus and minus rule, it is not as accountable as it should be, but all-in-all over the past 139 years its done a pretty good job. The system will continue to evolve.  Still, I am yet to be convinced that the unpopularity of any given policy is an indicator of the system being broken, instead of it simply being an indicator of the unpopularity of the policy.
 
>ensuring that people who had the good fortune of being begat by the proper people, continued to run things.

If you haven't been paying attention to the way politics is played in Canada, and to where certain people send their children to be educated and so forth, you can be excused for believing that things have changed.
 
>The appropriate course of action should be best determined by the electorate and not by elites.

A committee decision of 50%+1 is necessarily better?
 
A committee decision of 50%+1 is necessarily better?

Funny, I don't recall saying the system was perfect.  If you've got a suggestion to fix the system, by all means make it. If that commitee is elected then we don't call it elitism, we call it representative democracy.

If you haven't been paying attention to the way politics is played in Canada, and to where certain people send their children to be educated and so forth, you can be excused for believing that things have changed.

We've had our fair share of politicians who started out on the bottom rung of the social strata, as have we had those that started out at the top.  Certainly the concept of Canada as a classless society is a misnomer, but all in all things certainly have improved over where they where a hundred years ago.
 
xFusilier said:
If you've got a suggestion to fix the system, by all means make it. If that commitee is elected then we don't call it elitism, we call it representative democracy.
He has: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25692.0/all.html
 
WRT the US deficit and debt, I am certainly for steep reductions in government spending, but you should also consider the Debt number doesn't exist in isolation. The net household assets of the United States (i.e. household wealth) is estimated to be $51 Trillion dollars. There are some economists who feel the real thing to watch in the economy is the flow of assets.

In the case of Canada, since our net household asset base is smaller in both relative and absolute terms (Canadian incomes have been static for the better part of a decade), and our political elites use high taxation to direct the economy in ways which benefit themselves (Bermuda as a tax haven for CSL; Adscam, etc. etc.). Low levels of taxation allow people to accrue economic independence and power for their own personal benefit, which is a good thing. (Read Adam Smith).
 
midgetcop said:
OK, I am far from an economics whiz, so please bear with me.

But isn't using the U.S. Republican policy as a example of good economics a bad idea when their national debt has risen to over 8 trillion dollars?

I mean, aren't they going to have to deal with that at some point??

Their debt in proportion to their economy is roughly equivalent to our dept in proportion to our economy.  The difference is that, if they wanted to, they can cut spending and raise taxes 5-10% and havit it paid off in no time, whereas at this point we really can't afford to raise taxes any higher.
 
The net household assets of the United States (i.e. household wealth) is estimated to be $51 Trillion dollars. There are some economists who feel the real thing to watch in the economy is the flow of assets.

Are those numbers inclusive or exclusive of personal debt?  US News and World Report states that consumer debt, composes 113% of disposable income.  So is that 51 million dollars, as a result of increased economic power due to low taxation or readily available consumer credit?
 
>If you've got a suggestion to fix the system, by all means make it.

The first thing I would do is throw out the Constitution and Charter and start fresh with a document that delegates specific powers to federal and provincial governments and reserves everything else to individuals (something akin to what the US tried to do), including full exercise of all inherent rights, and places a supermajority (federal and provincial unanimity and 75%+ of the electorate) hurdle on modifications to those rights and perhaps slightly less stringent requirements on constitutional amending formulae for lesser matters.  Then it wouldn't matter how shortsighted and selfish the pluralities and weak majorities in this country chose to be.

The trick to designing stable government is not to ensure that it can be powerful enough; the trick is to ensure that it can never be too powerful.  Rights and powers should be delegated from free people to their governments and armed forces and police services, not vice versa.
 
xFusilier said:
Trickle-down economics, may produce greater wealth, but at the end of the day one must also question, the social cost of those policies.  The invisible hand is far from benign, and there are costs to any economic option. 

Since the numbers are pretty solid evidence of the effects of lower taxation, I cannot fathom what "costs" creating greater wealth for everyone are being reffered to. The United States must be the only place on Earth at any time in human history where people living in "poverty" have cars and VCRs...

xFusilier said:
Are those numbers inclusive or exclusive of personal debt? 

Net is after deducting things like taxes and debt. If we factored this back then you would have the Gross houshold wealth, which would be an astromomical number indeed.
 
Costs can be quantified in more than monetary costs, there are human costs to allowing the invisible hand to work its way.  If trickle-down economics have functioned as they would have you believe, than why is the poverty rate per 100,000 in the US has roughly steady for the past 20 years, whislt GDP has increased?  Furthermore despite the massive wealth produced the US still ranks lower in Human Development Indicators than those nations which exhibit a mixed economy.  Given this one could conclude that whilst reduction of taxes may equate to greater wealth it does not equate to greater opportunity. Lastly, if you think that the United States must be the only place on Earth where poor people have cars and VCR's you need to get out more often.

 
I still don't see what "costs" you are talking of. The huge tax load on Canadians chokes off investment, savings for personal wants and needs and makes business start ups quite difficult, especially when I compare the situation with family members who live across the border. Or is that not a "cost?"

The social contract being written in Canada under the Liberals seems to be sit back and "we" will decide what is best for you. The "Beer and Popcorn" remark is a perfect example of how our so called elites see you and I, and (getting back to C.S. Lewis) feel they should treat us like sheep or cattle and seize our resources "for our own good". Or is that not a "cost?"

In the United States, people have far more options to succeed or fail (and of course there are far more options to help those who have failed, namely private and religious charity.) Perhaps an extreme case to illustrate the point, but the current (American) owner of the Montreal Canadians was a millionare, then went bankrupt, and came back to become wealthy enough to purchase a Canadian NHL franchise. In contrast, the (Canadian) owner of the Ottawa Senators has connections to the Liberals, and almost tripped over himself to get to the head of the line when John Manley suggested taxpayer money be given to NHL teams. In one case, the team owner payed his own freight, in the other he expected you to pay it for him. Or is that not a "cost"?

Frankly, the problem with all these socialistic pronouncements about income redistribution and governments directing the nature of the economy is they totally evade the fact that the wealth they are "redistributing" belongs to the people who earned it, and not only is there the direct costs of loss of savings and compound interest to the owners of the wealth, but also the opportunity costs of lost possibilities.

Should Harper win, there will be no miracles, but even the fairly modest tax cuts being proposed will energize the economy, and leave a larger portion of the taxpayer's wealth available for them to manage as they, not the State, sees fit. Perhaps individuals might not make choices you approve of (but then, you might be making choices I don't agree with either), but face it, it is up to them. A few posts back I laid out many examples covering different periods of time and different nations, almost no one would ever say that things were better in any of these places before the tax cuts. Even just taking off stifling regulatory burdens works wonders, many blogs from Iraq point out the energetic new economy as people unleash the pent up demand for things like Internet, Satellite TV and cell phones which were banned under the old regime. Iraqi voters gave the purple finger to their oppressors and the Jihadis, now Adam Smith is giving the invisible finger to totalitarian rules and regulations.

So when the 23rd comes around, I will be voting for the party which will leave me the most operating room, and allows me to allocate my own resources as I feel fitting.
 
There are human costs to not allowing the invisible hand to work its way.  Contrary to the wishes and earnest protests of socialists, a rising tide _does_ lift all boats, albeit at different rates.  If the effect of socialist policies is to slow the rate of inflow of the tide while tying most of the boats together, then there is a demonstrable slowing of overall human progress and a distinct opportunity cost (loss).
 
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