The Somme; 90 years on

[big bad john]

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/HistoryAndHonour/TheSomme90YearsOn.htm

The Somme; 90 years on
22 Jun 06
The 90th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme will be marked on 1 July 2006 with a day of commemorative events across the Somme area of France. Events will be attended by senior members of the Royal Family, Senior UK, Commonwealth and French Government Ministers, and WWI veteran Henry Allingham.


Private Thomas Seville, 7th King's Own (Royal Lancashire Fusiliers) killed in action leading a bombing party against a German trench at La Boisselle, 4 July 1916.
[Picture: MOD]
The Battle of the Somme started on July 1st 1916 and raged on until November of that year. It was planned by the allies to relieve the pressure on the western front, which had been locked in the stalemate of trench warfare for a year and a half. But the offensive was unsuccessful, with more than one million casualties on both sides and the war continued for a further two years.

The British forces suffered nearly 60,000 casualties on the first day alone, giving July 1st the unfortunate distinction of being the bloodiest day in British military history. The total amount of casualties when the battle was finally abandoned in November included 420,000 British, 200,000 French, and 500,000 Germans.

A number of events will be taking place throughout the day, at key sites of the battle, including:

Canadian Commemoration at Beaumont Hamel
British and Commonwealth Commemoration at Thiepval Memorial
Irish Commemorations at Ulster Tower
Irish Commemorations at Guillemont
Australian Commemoration at Fromelles Memorial
Squadron Leader Howard Leader, a member of the Somme 90th Anniversary project team, said:

"The Battle of the Somme was one of the costliest of the First World War. It is absolutely fitting that we should remember all those who gave their lives. On Saturday 1 July we will pay tribute to those of all nationalities on all sides, who died or suffered during that difficult period.

"It is very important that younger generations should understand the experiences of older generations as they helped shape our national culture, our freedom and our democracy, providing the opportunities and prosperity that we enjoy today."

 

[Red 6]

What's the current take concerning the casualty rates on the Somme? Do most historians consider it a waste of lives, or a nesessary component of the campaign? I would suppose this question could apply to the overall allied casualties in World War I. I'm awfully interested to hear some of your opinions on this one.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

What's the current take concerning the casualty rates on the Somme? Do most historians consider it a waste of lives, or a nesessary component of the campaign? I would suppose this question could apply to the overall allied casualties in World War I. I'm awfully interested to hear some of your opinions on this one.

Check out MUD, BLOOD AND POPPYCOCK for a unique take on that by a professional British staff officer of the modern era.  The Somme was a huge watershed in the war in that tactics evolved for the better - and had been evolving by then, in fact. Some divisions captured their objectives almost without loss on the 1st day of the offensive - others got destroyed as is well known.  The Army was slow to disseminate info, but Haig is seen much more favourably these days by current historians than in the 1930s. His reputation during the war and immediately after was quite good, also - a lot of people don't realize that today.

The whole bloody war was a waste, but it was definitely in Britain's interest - and Canada's - to have participated, and once you pledge yourself to participating, you have to fight to win. And we certainly did.

I'll quote myself on this:

"The Somme was proof that the British Army was going through a learning process. Drill and rote had been necessary to hammer together entire battalions of soldiers in the so-called "Kitchener's Army". While 20,000 fatalities and 40,000 wounded men would be history's testament to their lack of military skill, there still existed amongst the piles of corpses the first glimmers of tactical and operational innovation. It should be noted that even successful battles such as the capture of Vimy Ridge, in which successful tactics and weapons pioneered after the Somme were employed (small unit tactics and wire-cutting shells chief among these), successful divisional operations were still costing thousands of friendly casualties. Successful battles in the First World War were only less tragic and costly in human terms by matter of degree. "

No one learns how to fight an Army overnight - which is why it is always so dangerous not to have one in peacetime.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I have always found it interesting that those historians, journalists, etc., that proclaim against the "slaughter" and tactics of the First World War have not once put forth a valid alternative backed up by a detailed military estimate based on the tactics, equipment and knowledge available at the time.

I will second the vote on "Mud, Blood and Poppycock" as a worthwhile read, in which the author gives detailed analyses of a variety of myths about the War.

 

[Red 6]

I read some of Lyn MacDonald's books (Somme, and They Called It Passchendaele) quite a few years ago. He took Haig, Rawlinson, and the rest to the wood shed in the literal sense on the way lives were used up. It's hard for me to think about WWI and not be appalled at the casualty rates.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I read some of Lyn MacDonald's books (Somme, and They Called It Passchendaele) quite a few years ago. He took Haig, Rawlinson, and the rest to the wood shed in the literal sense on the way lives were used up. It's hard for me to think about WWI and not be appalled at the casualty rates.

Did MacDonald suggest a better way of doing things?

As I mentioned in my post, even a successful battle like Vimy Ridge cost many lives - and statistically, an infantryman in the Second World War had more of chance of being killed or wounded than his counterpart in the First World War.

 

[Red 6]

No, I don't think he did, as I recall. I wasn't making a judgment, just commenting on what I remember.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

No, I don't think he did, as I recall. I wasn't making a judgment, just commenting on what I remember.

He is a she.

 

[Red 6]

You are absolutely right, Michael. OOps :

 

[Michael Dorosh]

You are absolutely right, Michael. OOps :

But in all seriousness, I dont' think her reaction to Haig et al are in line with other more recent historians. I've not read MacDonald though - I hear she is quite good. Some might label Corrigan (MBandP) as revisionist, others might label MacDonald that way. Part of the battle for the 'truth' I suppose.

 

[ExSarge]

There are truths and then there are truths. The danger with any history is the "when". Not the when of the historical event but the when of the historian. We all tend to understand events based on contemporary morals and norms. An example would be the way the wounded or prisoners were treated after a battle in the middle ages. What we, based on our 21 century sensibilities would consider callous and brutal treatment was seen at the time as normal and unremarkable. Haig, and his leadership must be viewed and judged in context of the times. On a personal note, I think Lyn McDonald's "Somme" is an eloquent beautifully written work. On the other hand I find that books written during the 70'es "anti-war" craze must be approached knowing that there may be an agenda at play.

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

Is anyone going to the 90th anniversary of vimy next year?
I"m a new reservist and I"m going with school so unfortunatly I don't believe I will be able to wear my uniform as its a school trip and I'll just have nearly a year in the reserves at the time.
( I would Consider this a real honor)
I'll be going to beumont hamel amoung other places.
My school's Adanced Media course is making a documentary about the trip and I"m going to be doing the historical research so I"ll be peppering this site with questions over the next few months.
-thanks
Eric

 

[TMM]

History TV has what looks to be a good special on next week: http://www.historytelevision.ca/ontv/titledetails.aspx?titleid=93208

 

[Red 6]

The Military Channel is showing a program on the Somme next weekend in the US. It looks to be part recreation and part original film. Do ya'll get the Military Channel in Canada?

 

[SigOpDraco]

It's coming on the History Channel here in Ontario on Friday at 8, and on my box its on the military channel on Saturday at 7 or 8.

 

[ExSarge]

This is one of those programs that I'm really looking forward to. I understand the reenactments were filmed in the Ukraine, with a portion of the trench lines reproduced from WWI trench maps of the Somme. It should be a good program.

 

[Bill DD]

This is my first post since joining 10 minutes ago, I have just watch a programme on UK TV in Nottingham showing 'The Royal Newfoundland Regiment' and their heroic advance on the Somme - everyone a hero - led by incompetents.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

This is my first post since joining 10 minutes ago, I have just watch a programme on UK TV in Nottingham showing 'The Royal Newfoundland Regiment' and their heroic advance on the Somme - everyone a hero - led by incompetents.

Fair enough; how would you, personally, have relieved the pressure on Verdun, then?

 

[Bill DD]

To all my detractors - sorry!

All I was reporting was the recognition attributed to The Royal Newfoundland Regiment on the Somme. 'Lest we forget - what!!!!

 

[Red 6]

Bill: No worries. Feelings still run strong about the First World War and everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the subject.