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Trident: No More Beards @ Sea

The Bread Guy

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Mods - did the search, and couldn't find a ref. to this, but feel free to dump/merge if it's here someplace.

No more beards for sailors at sea
Darlene Blakeley, Navy editor, Maple Leaf, The Trident, 12 Aug 09
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Seagoing sailors and beards—they just seem to go together like salt and pepper, rum and coke, burgers and fries—but no more.
On July 14 the Navy announced that effective immediately all persons serving in HMC Ships and submarines are to be clean shaven. The decision was made for operational reasons—to ensure the safety of sailors using respiratory protection systems employed onboard naval vessels.

“I know this decision may be difficult to accept, but it was not made lightly,” said Command Chief Petty Officer (CCPO) Robert Cleroux. “It was absolutely necessary for operational reasons. Facial hair, beards in particular, prevent a proper face-to-face-piece seal when wearing respiratory protection systems. When the argument boils down to safety versus tradition, the safety of our sailors must remain paramount in all of our decisions.”

The practise of sailors wearing beards at sea dates back to the era of wooden ships when there wasn’t enough fresh water for sailors to shave properly, CCPO Cleroux explained. “On modern warships there are almost always sufficient quantities of fresh water for sailors to shave, and our sailors wear beards mostly for the sake of tradition. For hundreds of years sailors wore beards and put tar in their hair to keep it together—those days are long gone.”

The tradition of allowing sailors to wear beards will be protected to some extent, as those serving ashore will still be able to wear them. “This decision doesn’t affect all Navy personnel,” CCPO Cleroux stressed, “but it does affect seagoing billets where sailors are expected to participate in shipborne firefighting duties that necessitate the use of a self-contained breathing apparatus. Sailors must be able to wear the apparatus to protect themselves and others.”

This decision only affects the wearing of beards; moustaches and sideburns can still be worn in accordance with CF dress regulations. Reasonable accommodation will also be made for personnel with religious and medical exemptions.Other navies, including the British and US navies, already have this policy in place.

CCPO Cleroux admitted that for those who have worn beards for most of their naval careers, the new policy will be difficult. But he is leading by example—he shaved off the beard he has been wearing for more than 25 years. “I did it in support of sailors at sea, but also because it is getting very grey.”

His wife, who is away tending to their daughter and a newborn baby, has not seen his newly shorn face yet. “She’s going to be surprised,” CCPO Cleroux laughed.So will many of the other wives and girlfriends who may be seeing their sailors’ clean shaven faces for the first time. But, as CCPO Cleroux noted, “safety must come  first.”
 
To tell the truth, I'm not surprised.  If wearing SCBA or even a gas mask one should be clean shaven.  It's the only way to get a proper seal.

IAW C-87-040-000/MS-001, RESPIRATORY PROTECTION PROGRAM, Part 4:

FITTING OF RESPIRATORS

1. The degree of protection afforded by a respirator requiring a close face to facepiece seal depends on several factors, including:

a. efficiency of the seal to the facial skin;

and

13. The person conducting the fit test shall not perform the fit test unless the person undergoing the fit test is clean shaven where the facepiece seals to the skin.

So if someone with a beard has been fit-tested, I'll wager a month's pay that it was not a proper fit testing.  Not to say he wouldn't pass, but all it takes is some hairs out of place or the beard getting longer or shorter and your fit test is no longer valid.  Of course, IAW the RPP manual, if he was fit-tested with a beard, it's not valid anyway.
 
PMedMoe said:
To tell the truth, I'm not surprised.  If wearing SCBA or even a gas mask one should be clean shaven.  It's the only way to get a proper seal.
Even when I was still in, this was the rationale for no beards, but it just struck me as a pretty earthshaking thing, given how attached (no pun intended) sailors I've known are to their beards.
 
Then why am I seeing more and more Army personnel with beards, some of questionable taste that would not have been allowed 20 years ago?!?
 
This was also covered in Esquimalt's Lookout, 27 July 2009. I know from comments from the guys in 2006 this has been a hotly debated topic to be decided on.
 
Otto Fest said:
Then why am I seeing more and more Army personnel with beards, some of questionable taste that would not have been allowed 20 years ago?!?

Actually, I agree with you on that one, too.
 
Otto Fest said:
Then why am I seeing more and more Army personnel with beards, some of questionable taste that would not have been allowed 20 years ago?!?

Times change. Dinosaurs die. Might be a Navy pers attached to a Land unit. Water is scarce on some OPs and the superiors in the CoC allow it.
 
Well until I see it mention women with facial hair, I will consider it BS.
 
Of course I am serious. I have seen women who have more facial hair than some guys.
 
sledge said:
Of course I am serious. I have seen women who have more facial hair than some guys.

Utilizez votre matière gris mon ami. Est-ce qu'elles ont des barbiches où seulement un petit peu des barbes?

This is silly - you know better. And yes, I'm quite sure you'll just consider a new Naval dress regulation as "BS" until they incorporate a clause ordering women to shave. Somehow me thinks not.
 
Actually not everyone has to shave. They have a clause in there for religious and medical grounds. But it list a caveat for supervisors to watch out for them as they may loose air faster than the fat out of shape smokers, ( I am one of them) who suck back the air. Their is no similar caveat to watch out for the same thing on hairy women.
 
sledge said:
Actually not everyone has to shave. They have a clause in there for religious and medical grounds. But it list a caveat for supervisors to watch out for them as they may loose air faster than the fat out of shape smokers, ( I am one of them) who suck back the air. Their is no similar caveat to watch out for the same thing on hairy women.

Really? I must have missed reading about the religious/medical exemption in the original article.  ::)

Of course there is no similar caveat for the women with a few whiskers ... whiskers are NOT full beards. And, if you do know and serve with a woman with a full beard - which I highly doubt - I'd wager she'd fall into that "medical exemption" category at any rate (not that she'd want to 'not' shave).

Get a grip on reality. Speaking of "loose air" ...
 
sledge said:
Of course I am serious. I have seen women who have more facial hair than some guys.

Vern.....don't ask, please we do not need to know just where he found these hirsute  gems, nor do we need to know why he was there or in what condition...!!!
;D
 
I've been awaiting anxiously for the deluge of sailors who have all of a sudden developed some "skin condition"  ::)...maybe it'll change when this "condition" results in a category that takes away their sea pay  :nod:.

MM
 
medicineman said:
I've been awaiting anxiously for the deluge of sailors who have all of a sudden developed some "skin condition"  ::)...maybe it'll change when this "condition" results in a category that takes away their sea pay  :nod:.

MM

Yep, being able to wear PPE must be part of their generic task statement, no?
 
sledge said:
Of course I am serious. I have seen women who have more facial hair than some guys.

What you have not seen, I'd wager quite heavily, is a woman with enough facial hair to affect the seal on a Chemox or SCBA mask, so it's not an issue.
 
N. McKay said:
What you have not seen, I'd wager quite heavily, is a woman with enough facial hair to affect the seal on a Chemox or SCBA mask, so it's not an issue.

Enough. Move it along.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
“I know this decision may be difficult to accept, but it was not made lightly,” said Command Chief Petty Officer (CCPO) Robert Cleroux. “It was absolutely necessary for operational reasons. Facial hair, beards in particular, prevent a proper face-to-face-piece seal when wearing respiratory protection systems. When the argument boils down to safety versus tradition, the safety of our sailors must remain paramount in all of our decisions.”

Sometimes facial hair prevents a good seal. Sometimes face shape prevents a good seal. Is the CF now going to land personnel that can't get a good seal with a one-size-fits-all mask? After all, safety is paramount.

The practise of sailors wearing beards at sea dates back to the era of wooden ships when there wasn’t enough fresh water for sailors to shave properly, CCPO Cleroux explained. “On modern warships there are almost always sufficient quantities of fresh water for sailors to shave, and our sailors wear beards mostly for the sake of tradition. For hundreds of years sailors wore beards and put tar in their hair to keep it together—those days are long gone.”

He has a point on ships. However on boats the problem after SOUP wasn't that we couldn't get the fresh water, it was that we didn't have enough space to store grey water. Unless the Victorias have some way of compressing water, that's unlikely to change.

The tradition of allowing sailors to wear beards will be protected to some extent, as those serving ashore will still be able to wear them. “This decision doesn’t affect all Navy personnel,” CCPO Cleroux stressed, “but it does affect seagoing billets where sailors are expected to participate in shipborne firefighting duties that necessitate the use of a self-contained breathing apparatus. Sailors must be able to wear the apparatus to protect themselves and others.”

So we're definitely landing people that can't get a seal, right?  ::)

This decision only affects the wearing of beards; moustaches and sideburns can still be worn in accordance with CF dress regulations. Reasonable accommodation will also be made for personnel with religious and medical exemptions.Other navies, including the British and US navies, already have this policy in place.

Neither the USN nor the RN run diesel boats any more. SSN's have a lot more space for grey water. They should, on 3-4 times the displacement.
 
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