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Posted by "Peter deVries" <[email protected]> on Fri, 23 Feb 2001 05:14:55
Really?
Sounds good to me. Do you read the Corps series at all?
Pete
>From: Thomas A Bisping
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
>Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:46:31 -0600
>
>Pete,
>
> The Aviators was last in 1988. Just released January 2001, is
>"Special Ops" I just got it and am getting ready to start reading it.
>It is supposedly, "the one more story left in the series, that hadn‘t
>been told," or something. I‘ve heard this is supposed to absolutely be
>the last in the series. Tom
>
>On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:09:22 "Peter deVries"
>writes:
> > Tom,
> > Whats the newest edition to the Brotherhood of War? Is it the
> > Aviators,
> > or something else? Soryy it‘s a bit off topic.
> > Pete
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Thomas A Bisping
> > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:54:37 -0600
> > >
> > >John:
> > >
> > > Are you trying to cause my brain to catch fire? LOL. I
> > guess I‘m
> > >greatful I was a "redleg" and not An Adjutant General Corps
> > Officer. I‘m
> > >sure there are exceptions to every rule. And you are right about
> > >absolutes. I‘ve read all of W.E.B. Griffith‘s Brotherhood of War
> > Series.
> > > I‘ve also just received The newest edition to it. 13 years
> > after the
> > >last one. I‘m sure a battlefield commission would be done
> > regardless of
> > >where the soldier was born because after all he is risking his neck
> > for
> > >the US. Rules and Regs. change constantly and it‘s going on four
> > years
> > >since I last wore a uniform. But what I can do is ask the ROTC
> > >Detachment at my University, and see what the latest reg is. The
> > >Department of the Army Civilian Administrator has been there for
> > over 30
> > >years. She‘s forgotten more regulations regarding commissions in
> > the US
> > >Army then a lot of people, myself included will ever know. How
> > about we
> > >let the thread rest until I can get in touch with her and find out
> > the
> > >real deal? And remember if the answer I get doesn‘t sound fair,
> > >remember there‘s the right way, the wrong way, and the army way.
> > The
> > >Army way always wins! I‘ll post what I found out on this board.
> > > Earleir there was a short lived thread of famous movie quotes
> > and so
> > >from "Magnum Force"..."A man‘s got to know his limitations!" and
> > believe
> > >me I know mine. Take Care. Tom Bisping
> > >
> > >On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:29:11 -0500 "Gow" writes:
> > > > "Range Control to Major Tom"
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, I‘ve always wanted to transmit thatshowing my age
> > > >
> > > > The question is about to become fractured...as usual, because
> > > > Justice is not
> > > > only blind, but ignorant of absolutes...
> > > >
> > > > Here are a few variants...
> > > >
> > > > We take most of you para one at face value or given scenario,
> > if
> > > > you
> > > > prefer..
> > > >
> > > > i Pte "X" has the requisite college hours a in an American
> > > > College
> > > >
> > > > b
> > > > in a recognised Cdn college
> > > > ii Pte "X" has hours, but no degree from an a Canadian
> > > > University
> > > >
> > > > b foreign university
> > > > iii Pte "X" has a degree, or qualifying time classes etc in
> > a
> > > > Canadian
> > > > or non-American University
> > > > iv Pte "X" has held a commission in an Allied State or
> > country,
> > > > and
> > > > applies for same with the USA while application for citizenship
> > is
> > > > incomplete
> > > > v "Pte" "X" who may not be a Private at all, s an enlisted
> > > > member of US
> > > > Forces, in any given Branch
> > > > has done certifiable service for the USA has qualified
> > for
> > > > a high
> > > > award with the USA has been seen and written up for
> > > > award or
> > > > service like action by any US citizen would result in a
> > commission
> > > > being
> > > > offered smiling what then?..even if citizenship, has not, til
> > > > then, been
> > > > an issue and there proceeds a paperwork problem in
> > granting
> > > > same?
> > > >
> > > > BTW I sit on the Canada Standards Association Board for our
> > trade,
> > > > so these
> > > > are interesting and relevant disputes that require a lot of
> > thought,
> > > > so it
> > > > kind of amuses me to raise like issues...and they are, in fact
> > > > relevant to
> > > > my learning, not just aggravating other guys....so I have a
> > tough
> > > > time in
> > > > taking the immutable rule standard of thinking.
> > > >
> > > > So going down the drain with this course of thought, perhaps the
> > USA
> > > > DOD
> > > > would approach the State Department with an urgent
> > consideration...
> > > >
> > > > But that‘s not really fair, because the ones that don‘t pass
> > through
> > > > the
> > > > screen at fifty meters without touching wires have not the same
> > > > "rights"
> > > >
> > > > Going from some great books, written by W.E.B. Griffin, you
> > could
> > > > perhaps,
> > > > again, today, not "can" get the commission before the degree.
> > The
> > > > writing
> > > > seemed pretty real-timed, so maybe by the way today...but seems
> > to
> > > > shut outa
> > > > lot of people that could/can, if given the chance. And sending
> > them
> > > > to
> > > > college, on or off pay status...well, not sure where I sit on
> > that,
> > > > but to
> > > > coin a phrase "I am Canadian"
> > > >
> > > > Seems a bit wrog, what‘s the word? ...Double standard...that
> > > > citizenship
> > > > should be the deciding factor on who can be commissioned and who
> > > > cannot.
> > > >
> > > > Given, your country, not mine, and we never got tothe fine
> > > > definitions...but
> > > > a really interesting issue or idea.
> > > >
> > > > And, Sir, I don‘t mean this to be disrespectful or a
> > > > "flippancy"...just
> > > > something that is interesting....
> > > >
> > > > Best Respects
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Thomas A Bisping"
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:58 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > John:
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, good question! First off, I would say if Mr. X,
> > we‘ll
> > > > call
> > > > > him, crosses into the US and enlists, goes to basic training
> > and
> > > > Advanced
> > > > > Individual Training, and goes to a unit. Pvt. X becomes a
> > superb
> > > > > soldier. It is conceivable that he could be recommended for
> > OCS,
> > > > if he
> > > > > met the ASVAB GT score and had the 60 credit hours 2 yrs of
> > > > college
> > > > > work. Somewhere in the process I‘m going to have to say he‘d
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > become a US citizen.
> > > > >
> > > > > When I said "commitment to obtaining citizenship", I was
> > > > referring
> > > > > to the fact that a person would want to be become a citizen of
> > the
> > > > US.
> > > > > And take the necessary steps to achieve it. I don‘t know
> > thing
> > > > one
> > > > > about "dual citizenship" scenarios!
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as a University degree goes, it‘s an absolute.
> > There
> > > > is now a
> > > > > program called "Green to Gold." It takes bright enlisted
> > > > personnel,
> > > > > releases them from active duty early and sends them to a
> > College
> > > > or
> > > > > University that has an Army Reserve Officer Training Corps
> > > > program. The
> > > > > program allows students to obtain their Officer Training and
> > > > University
> > > > > classes at the same time. Participants are awarded a
> > scholarship,
> > > > have
> > > > > books, etc. taken care of, plus a small monthly stipend. It
> > works
> > > > to
> > > > > bridge the gap between enlisted service and degree
> > requirements.
> > > > As far
> > > > > as after school service obligations go, I‘m not sure. Of
> > course
> > > > I‘ll go
> > > > > to my University‘s web site, click on to the ROTC page, and
> > > > discover I
> > > > > gave you some erroneous data! But I‘ll stay on the limb and
> > say
> > > > that
> > > > > citizenship is required for commissioned service but not
> > enlisted.
> > > > Tom
> > > > > Bisping
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:54:02 -0500 "Gow"
> > writes:
> > > > > > Good evening Major Bisping
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Given what you, it would be conceivable that a Canadian
> > could be
> > > > > > commissioned from the ranks, given he was accepted as a
> > soldier,
> > > > and
> > > > > > trained...wouldn‘t it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And tho‘ it makes me sound the barrack room lawyer,
> > "commitment
> > > > to
> > > > > > obtaining
> > > > > > citizenship" would not necessarily be the same as "obtaining
> > > > > > citizenship".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would it not be accepted as "for the good of the Service",
> > or
> > > > the
> > > > > > "exigencies of the Service"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For that matter, would not having a university degree enter
> > into
> > > > the
> > > > > > question?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for shedding light on an interesting point, by the
> > way!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Thomas A Bisping"
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:29 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the
> > wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > In 1982, an applicant for a Commission to the US Army
> > had
> > > > to be
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > Resident Alien, and Naturalized Citizen at commissioning.
> > 19
> > > > > > years
> > > > > > > later, I‘m sure that this rule stands, if not tougher. In
> > > > 1984,
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > Korea, we had a guy from Ste. Sault Marie, Ontario, in my
> > > > battery.
> > > > > > He
> > > > > > > simply crossed over into Michigan and enlisted. I had
> > never
> > > > seen
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > before, but there he was. Of course when of my favorite
> > > > topics,
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > 40,000 Canadians that served in Vietnam, with the US Armed
> > > > Forces,
> > > > > > has a
> > > > > > > lot of kids who were on extended visits or school and got
> > a
> > > > letter
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > the neighborhood draft board. But as far as I can recall,
> > > > > > commissioning,
> > > > > > > called for a committment to obtaining US citizenship. And
> > > > since
> > > > > > these
> > > > > > > regulations are across the board for each branch of
> > service, I
> > > > > > would feel
> > > > > > > safe going out on the limb and saying that unless a
> > Canadian
> > > > > > Citizen came
> > > > > > > to America with the intention of becoming a citizen,
> > he/she
> > > > could
> > > > > > not be
> > > > > > > commissioned in any branch of the Armed Forces of the
> > United
> > > > > > States. Any
> > > > > > > Yanks out there, please shout if I got this wrong. Tom
> > > > Bisping
> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > > to [email protected] from the account you wish to
> > > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > > message body.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > > to [email protected] from the account you wish to
> > > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > > message body.
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > > to [email protected] from the account you wish to
> > > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > > message body.
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > > > to [email protected] from the account you wish to
> > > > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > > > message body.
> > >--------------------------------------------------------
> > >NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > >to [email protected] from the account you wish to
> > >remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > >message body.
> >
> >
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> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
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>--------------------------------------------------------
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message body.
Really?
Sounds good to me. Do you read the Corps series at all?
Pete
>From: Thomas A Bisping
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
>Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:46:31 -0600
>
>Pete,
>
> The Aviators was last in 1988. Just released January 2001, is
>"Special Ops" I just got it and am getting ready to start reading it.
>It is supposedly, "the one more story left in the series, that hadn‘t
>been told," or something. I‘ve heard this is supposed to absolutely be
>the last in the series. Tom
>
>On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:09:22 "Peter deVries"
>writes:
> > Tom,
> > Whats the newest edition to the Brotherhood of War? Is it the
> > Aviators,
> > or something else? Soryy it‘s a bit off topic.
> > Pete
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Thomas A Bisping
> > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:54:37 -0600
> > >
> > >John:
> > >
> > > Are you trying to cause my brain to catch fire? LOL. I
> > guess I‘m
> > >greatful I was a "redleg" and not An Adjutant General Corps
> > Officer. I‘m
> > >sure there are exceptions to every rule. And you are right about
> > >absolutes. I‘ve read all of W.E.B. Griffith‘s Brotherhood of War
> > Series.
> > > I‘ve also just received The newest edition to it. 13 years
> > after the
> > >last one. I‘m sure a battlefield commission would be done
> > regardless of
> > >where the soldier was born because after all he is risking his neck
> > for
> > >the US. Rules and Regs. change constantly and it‘s going on four
> > years
> > >since I last wore a uniform. But what I can do is ask the ROTC
> > >Detachment at my University, and see what the latest reg is. The
> > >Department of the Army Civilian Administrator has been there for
> > over 30
> > >years. She‘s forgotten more regulations regarding commissions in
> > the US
> > >Army then a lot of people, myself included will ever know. How
> > about we
> > >let the thread rest until I can get in touch with her and find out
> > the
> > >real deal? And remember if the answer I get doesn‘t sound fair,
> > >remember there‘s the right way, the wrong way, and the army way.
> > The
> > >Army way always wins! I‘ll post what I found out on this board.
> > > Earleir there was a short lived thread of famous movie quotes
> > and so
> > >from "Magnum Force"..."A man‘s got to know his limitations!" and
> > believe
> > >me I know mine. Take Care. Tom Bisping
> > >
> > >On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:29:11 -0500 "Gow" writes:
> > > > "Range Control to Major Tom"
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, I‘ve always wanted to transmit thatshowing my age
> > > >
> > > > The question is about to become fractured...as usual, because
> > > > Justice is not
> > > > only blind, but ignorant of absolutes...
> > > >
> > > > Here are a few variants...
> > > >
> > > > We take most of you para one at face value or given scenario,
> > if
> > > > you
> > > > prefer..
> > > >
> > > > i Pte "X" has the requisite college hours a in an American
> > > > College
> > > >
> > > > b
> > > > in a recognised Cdn college
> > > > ii Pte "X" has hours, but no degree from an a Canadian
> > > > University
> > > >
> > > > b foreign university
> > > > iii Pte "X" has a degree, or qualifying time classes etc in
> > a
> > > > Canadian
> > > > or non-American University
> > > > iv Pte "X" has held a commission in an Allied State or
> > country,
> > > > and
> > > > applies for same with the USA while application for citizenship
> > is
> > > > incomplete
> > > > v "Pte" "X" who may not be a Private at all, s an enlisted
> > > > member of US
> > > > Forces, in any given Branch
> > > > has done certifiable service for the USA has qualified
> > for
> > > > a high
> > > > award with the USA has been seen and written up for
> > > > award or
> > > > service like action by any US citizen would result in a
> > commission
> > > > being
> > > > offered smiling what then?..even if citizenship, has not, til
> > > > then, been
> > > > an issue and there proceeds a paperwork problem in
> > granting
> > > > same?
> > > >
> > > > BTW I sit on the Canada Standards Association Board for our
> > trade,
> > > > so these
> > > > are interesting and relevant disputes that require a lot of
> > thought,
> > > > so it
> > > > kind of amuses me to raise like issues...and they are, in fact
> > > > relevant to
> > > > my learning, not just aggravating other guys....so I have a
> > tough
> > > > time in
> > > > taking the immutable rule standard of thinking.
> > > >
> > > > So going down the drain with this course of thought, perhaps the
> > USA
> > > > DOD
> > > > would approach the State Department with an urgent
> > consideration...
> > > >
> > > > But that‘s not really fair, because the ones that don‘t pass
> > through
> > > > the
> > > > screen at fifty meters without touching wires have not the same
> > > > "rights"
> > > >
> > > > Going from some great books, written by W.E.B. Griffin, you
> > could
> > > > perhaps,
> > > > again, today, not "can" get the commission before the degree.
> > The
> > > > writing
> > > > seemed pretty real-timed, so maybe by the way today...but seems
> > to
> > > > shut outa
> > > > lot of people that could/can, if given the chance. And sending
> > them
> > > > to
> > > > college, on or off pay status...well, not sure where I sit on
> > that,
> > > > but to
> > > > coin a phrase "I am Canadian"
> > > >
> > > > Seems a bit wrog, what‘s the word? ...Double standard...that
> > > > citizenship
> > > > should be the deciding factor on who can be commissioned and who
> > > > cannot.
> > > >
> > > > Given, your country, not mine, and we never got tothe fine
> > > > definitions...but
> > > > a really interesting issue or idea.
> > > >
> > > > And, Sir, I don‘t mean this to be disrespectful or a
> > > > "flippancy"...just
> > > > something that is interesting....
> > > >
> > > > Best Respects
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Thomas A Bisping"
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:58 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > John:
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, good question! First off, I would say if Mr. X,
> > we‘ll
> > > > call
> > > > > him, crosses into the US and enlists, goes to basic training
> > and
> > > > Advanced
> > > > > Individual Training, and goes to a unit. Pvt. X becomes a
> > superb
> > > > > soldier. It is conceivable that he could be recommended for
> > OCS,
> > > > if he
> > > > > met the ASVAB GT score and had the 60 credit hours 2 yrs of
> > > > college
> > > > > work. Somewhere in the process I‘m going to have to say he‘d
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > become a US citizen.
> > > > >
> > > > > When I said "commitment to obtaining citizenship", I was
> > > > referring
> > > > > to the fact that a person would want to be become a citizen of
> > the
> > > > US.
> > > > > And take the necessary steps to achieve it. I don‘t know
> > thing
> > > > one
> > > > > about "dual citizenship" scenarios!
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as a University degree goes, it‘s an absolute.
> > There
> > > > is now a
> > > > > program called "Green to Gold." It takes bright enlisted
> > > > personnel,
> > > > > releases them from active duty early and sends them to a
> > College
> > > > or
> > > > > University that has an Army Reserve Officer Training Corps
> > > > program. The
> > > > > program allows students to obtain their Officer Training and
> > > > University
> > > > > classes at the same time. Participants are awarded a
> > scholarship,
> > > > have
> > > > > books, etc. taken care of, plus a small monthly stipend. It
> > works
> > > > to
> > > > > bridge the gap between enlisted service and degree
> > requirements.
> > > > As far
> > > > > as after school service obligations go, I‘m not sure. Of
> > course
> > > > I‘ll go
> > > > > to my University‘s web site, click on to the ROTC page, and
> > > > discover I
> > > > > gave you some erroneous data! But I‘ll stay on the limb and
> > say
> > > > that
> > > > > citizenship is required for commissioned service but not
> > enlisted.
> > > > Tom
> > > > > Bisping
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:54:02 -0500 "Gow"
> > writes:
> > > > > > Good evening Major Bisping
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Given what you, it would be conceivable that a Canadian
> > could be
> > > > > > commissioned from the ranks, given he was accepted as a
> > soldier,
> > > > and
> > > > > > trained...wouldn‘t it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And tho‘ it makes me sound the barrack room lawyer,
> > "commitment
> > > > to
> > > > > > obtaining
> > > > > > citizenship" would not necessarily be the same as "obtaining
> > > > > > citizenship".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would it not be accepted as "for the good of the Service",
> > or
> > > > the
> > > > > > "exigencies of the Service"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For that matter, would not having a university degree enter
> > into
> > > > the
> > > > > > question?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for shedding light on an interesting point, by the
> > way!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Thomas A Bisping"
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:29 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: truth, the few the proud the
> > wannabeeeeeeeeeeees
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > In 1982, an applicant for a Commission to the US Army
> > had
> > > > to be
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > Resident Alien, and Naturalized Citizen at commissioning.
> > 19
> > > > > > years
> > > > > > > later, I‘m sure that this rule stands, if not tougher. In
> > > > 1984,
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > Korea, we had a guy from Ste. Sault Marie, Ontario, in my
> > > > battery.
> > > > > > He
> > > > > > > simply crossed over into Michigan and enlisted. I had
> > never
> > > > seen
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > before, but there he was. Of course when of my favorite
> > > > topics,
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > 40,000 Canadians that served in Vietnam, with the US Armed
> > > > Forces,
> > > > > > has a
> > > > > > > lot of kids who were on extended visits or school and got
> > a
> > > > letter
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > the neighborhood draft board. But as far as I can recall,
> > > > > > commissioning,
> > > > > > > called for a committment to obtaining US citizenship. And
> > > > since
> > > > > > these
> > > > > > > regulations are across the board for each branch of
> > service, I
> > > > > > would feel
> > > > > > > safe going out on the limb and saying that unless a
> > Canadian
> > > > > > Citizen came
> > > > > > > to America with the intention of becoming a citizen,
> > he/she
> > > > could
> > > > > > not be
> > > > > > > commissioned in any branch of the Armed Forces of the
> > United
> > > > > > States. Any
> > > > > > > Yanks out there, please shout if I got this wrong. Tom
> > > > Bisping
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