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Where Shall We Hide, M. Dion?

ruxted

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Where Shall We Hide, M. Dion?

In a recent article Stéphane Dion, Liberal Party of Canada leader, tells Canada that it is time to run and hide.  “Canada,” he assures us, “will be out of Kandahar in February of 2009.”

Canadians should understand the strategic consequences of M. Dion’s promise.

Perhaps the most immediate will be that Kandahar province will fall to the Taliban.

There will be no European nation ready, willing and able to step up to the plate and relieve Canada in combat in Kandahar.  The European peoples are unwilling to send their soldiers into battle; in part they wish to avoid provoking the own substantial Muslim minorities and in part they want to continue to toady to their Arab oil suppliers.  It is fair enough to heap opprobrium on them, so long as one is willing to admit that for too long we Canadians, as former Deputy Prime Minister John Manley said, ran to the washroom every time the West’s military/security bill was presented.  That will not change anything; the Europeans will not come to fight.  The ever willing Australians and British, even when (not if) they withdraw from Iraq, will not be able to take on both Helmand and Kandahar provinces.

The Americans, even after they manage, somehow, to extricate themselves from Iraq, will be unwilling to relieve us in Kandahar; they re sick and tired of wars in dirty, poor, hostile, far away places.  Their local military commanders will probably try to stretch their troops farther, maybe with some British support, but, ultimately, abandoned by some key allies like Canada and unsupported or inadequately supported by others, like France and Germany, America will decide to let Kandahar fall to the Taliban.

The loss of Kandahar will, most likely signal the start of the collapse of Afghanistan.

Kandahar is the largest of Afghanistan’s 34 provinces.  It is the ‘home’ of the Taliban and of the powerful Pashtun people.  It is also essential to Afghanistan’s survival as a cohesive nation-state.  It is far more likely that the Pashtuns of Helmand and Kandahar (and several other smaller neighbouring provinces in the South and East) will control Afghanistan than that the peoples of the other provinces will control the Pashtuns.
 
If we, in the West, are lucky Afghanistan may dissolve into several hostile statelets – each led by a warlord.  If, as we think is likely, we are not so lucky there will be a hostile, united Islamist theocracy, just as in 2001.  It will both embolden other hostile Islamist groups and, once again, offer a firm base for terrorism.  In any event it is unlikely that the current, lawfully and freely elected government can survive the loss of Kandahar and it is even more doubtful that it can hand over, peacefully, to another elected government.

The collapse of Afghanistan could also signal the erasure of the Durand Line, and the fragmentation of nuclear-armed Pakistan and possibly Kashmir. One possibility from all this is an Islamist nuclear state run by medieval theocrats sitting between five other nuclear powers - Russia, China, India, Israel and Iran - and able to reach two (France and the UK) of the remaining four (the last two are the US and North Korea).  This is not good for global peace and security.

The collapse of Afghanistan will likely signal the end of NATO.

NATO has been struggling since 1990.  It’s core ‘raison d’être’ disappeared* and it fell back, more or less, onto the political clauses which Canada insisted on including in the North Atlantic Treaty nearly 60 years ago.  It decided to reinvent itself as a robust peacemaking/peacekeeping alliance – available to the United nations when, as they so often do after the Cold War, peacekeeping missions became to complex, dangerous and difficult for the UN to manage.  Managing ISAF is NATO’s first big test.

If Afghanistan collapses, as it most likely will, because NATO failed to provide security for long enough over enough of the country then NATO will have failed the test it set for itself and for its own future.  It is unlikely that non-NATO partners like Austria and Australia will be willing to join in any other missions.  The UN will look elsewhere for ‘coalitions of the willing’ with a bit more backbone when it needs outside groups to take on hard missions.

Nations like China or Russia have the manpower and military hardware to do so, and the lack of scruples to enforce a “Roman peace” if necessary, but that is hardly an attractive proposition for us in the West. Indeed Russia and China might relish taking this role for precisely these reasons, as well as getting a UN fig leaf for their own ambitions.

If NATO has no ‘out of area’ UN subcontractor role then it will have to examine why it needs to continue to exist at all.  It will probably collapse and die.  If M. Dion succeeds in his political quest then Canada will have pulled the trigger.

The loss of NATO will significantly reduce Canada’s ‘power’ in the world which now, as in the past several decades, rests on our ‘collective security’ arrangements – with NATO at their heart.  It will also end Canada’s privileged economic entrée into Europe.  Europe is increasingly protectionist.  Canada has been a partner because of NATO.  No NATO, no partnership and Canada’s ‘power’ in the world is significantly reduced.

A weakened Canada will have fewer friends in the world.  Countries like Denmark, Russia and the United States will be far, far less inclined to respect our claims over the Northwest Passage, for example.

Without NATO, Canada will be faced with some hard choices:

• Spend, Spend! SPEND! on the military to acquire, for ourselves, the ‘power’ we lost with the demise of NATO, thus allowing us to press our case in the world on our own;

• Move closer and closer to the United States – trying to ‘share’ their power; or

• Work with a few allies to form a new alliance – this is Ruxted’s preferred choice, but it is easier said than done, especially if Canada needs to come to the table, cap-in-hand, with a reputation for being a ‘summer soldier.’

There is no ‘upside’ to withdrawing from Afghanistan.  One may argue that we will have fewer Canadian soldiers killed but Ruxted reminds readers that, for years and years, they were kept in the dark, intentionally, about casualties suffered in other UN and NATO missions.  This may sound cruel but we, Canadians, hire soldiers to do rough, hard, dangerous ‘work.’  Sometime they have to kill, sometimes some of them have to die.  Withdrawing from Afghanistan will not change that – only withdrawing from the world will.  Canada, we suggest, cannot withdraw from the world, even if Canadians might wish to do so.

Stéphane Dion wants us out of Afghanistan.  The media suggests to us that most Canadians agree with him.  The Ruxted Group has a few questions: where shall we hide, M. Dion?  Shall we abandon collective security and then cancel social programmes or raise taxes to build a military which will be able to meet our needs unilaterally?  Shall we go, cap-in-hand, to allies and ask them to join us in a new alliance?  Can you tell us how you’ll manage to convince them that, suddenly, we can be trusted to keep or promises, to do our share?  Shall we hide behind America’s skirts, M. Dion?  Is that what you offer Canadians?

And what of the Afghans, M. Dion?  Are they not poor enough to have some claim on our help?  Have they not been victimized enough to merit our aid?  Are they too foreign, too different to be worthy of our development efforts?  How are they less deserving of our support  that the unfortunate people of Darfur or Haiti?  Must we allow the Taliban to destroy the schools we built?  Do we allow the Taliban to enslave women?  To behead homosexuals?  Shall we give the drug lords free rein?  Why must we abandon them, M. Dion?  Why must we run and hide?

We are either a mature, responsible member, indeed leader in the West or we are a ‘failing state’ – you, M. Dion, offer us the latter.  That’s not good enough.  Surely we are better than that.

There is no place to which we can run; there is no place to hide. 


----------
* One can argue that Russia is still a residual threat.  While nothing like a powerful as the old Warsaw Pact Russia, under adequate leadership, might still threaten Europe.  But Ruxted considers it unlikely that Russia can mount such a threat that Europe would have to call on tans-Atlantic allies for help.  It is far more likely that Russia, despite great oil and gas revenues, will drift backwards into ‘failing state’ status. As such, she will pose social and political threats to Europe, but nothing significant militarily.
   
 
Our troops are doing a phenomenal job.  You cannot run from this, the people may want our forces there but the taliban do not.  Retreat is failure, pure and simple.
 
Canada is a changed country according to him....it used to be loved for what it was not?....gimme a break, and him an airline ticket back!!
 
Airline ticket ?...............No

Waybill!

I'm sick to death of hearing the peace activists spouting their trash.

This weekend I walked in on a conversation (at a party in my own house).

Democracy was a non-starter in Afghanistan because..........

"Afghans don't think like we do"

This was a reason that we should withdraw!

I wasn't going to tell a phillipino Canadian that she's a racist but...........








 
There is a lot of wisdom in much of what he says.
Unfortunately Afghanistan is a complex issue and we are there struggling to do the right thing.
Life isn't easy.

I must agree.

But it's a bit late in the game to be talking about pulling out. The vacuum left would literaly rip the mid east apart, with countless regimes leveraging for the top spot. I think Bush finally realizes, that the US just can't simply walk away and hope for the best, because their best would be our worst nightmare.
 
Bush has always realized that...

Canada really needs to man the fuck up.  The troops have been doing an extremly admirable job -- now they need the public to do the right thing, namely to go sign for a spine from CQ.
 
Infidel-6 said:
Canada really needs to man the fuck up.  The troops have been doing an extremly admirable job -- now they need the public to do the right thing, namely to go sign for a spine from CQ.
Kev: You took the words right out of my mouth. 
As for me, I simply cannot wait for the alien invasion to rid this planet of all stupidity.
 
As for me, I simply cannot wait for the alien invasion to rid this planet of all stupidity.

Now, why would intelligent aliens want to come to earth? I think they would probably place a detour sign to go around us.
 
why?  Just as easy to doze it under for the new Intergalactic Bypass.
 
Just be sure you take your towel when you hitchhike out of here :dontpanic:

:cdn:
Hawk

 
Love the articles, agree with the conclusions.  However, and I hate to be nit-picky, but someone needs to do a bit more proof-reading at Ruxted, it kind if detracts from its academic impact when some sentences dont make sense and there are still typos in it when it is published.
 
Hawk said:
Just be sure you take your towel when you hitchhike out of here :dontpanic:

:cdn:
Hawk

Rest assured, I ALWAYS know where my towel is.
 
Re: “There will be no European nation ready, willing and able to step up to the plate and relieve Canada in combat in Kandahar.”

I never thought I would say it, but I agree with Prof. Michael Byers.  Here, reproduced from today’s Globe and Mail under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act is another of his opinion pieces:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070717.wcoallies18/BNStory/Front/home
We are not alone in saying no

MICHAEL BYERS
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

July 17, 2007 at 11:28 PM EDT

LONDON — ‘I suppose most Canadians support the war in Afghanistan?”

The German professor looked at me, an eyebrow raised.

“No, actually,” I replied. “About half of us are opposed.”

Travelling through Europe this month, I've been struck by how national debates in different NATO countries take place in isolation from each other. Many Germans, for instance, assume Canadians support the counterinsurgency mission in southern Afghanistan. Similarly, many Canadians assume the 3,000 German soldiers in relatively safe northern Afghanistan aren't going anywhere soon.

In fact, 54 per cent of Germans think their soldiers should be withdrawn. In the Netherlands, 58 per cent want the 2,000 Dutch troops brought home by next year. Even in Poland, where the government strongly backs the mission and none of its 1,100 soldiers have been killed, a staggering 78 per cent oppose the Polish presence in Afghanistan.

Governments have fallen because of their support for the mission. In Italy, Prime Minister Romano Prodi resigned in February after losing a Senate vote over a foreign policy that included keeping 1,800 troops in Afghanistan. Although he was asked to form a new government, Italy's commitment to the mission remains tenuous at best.

Other governments are teetering on the edge. The Dutch will decide next month whether to extend their deployment. Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, who heads a fragile three-party coalition, finds himself on the wrong side of public opinion. This might explain why his government recently said that, even if Dutch troops were to stay, the mission would be scaled back because of financial limitations.

During the recent French election, presidential candidate Nicolas Sarkozy suggested that he would pull all 1,000 French troops out of Afghanistan. Having won office, he now says any such move is not “imminent.”

Other governments are setting limits on their contributions. Spain, with 650 soldiers deployed, lost 17 of them in a single helicopter crash in 2005. Two months ago, Defence Minister Jose Antonio Alonso made it plain that more soldiers would not be sent. “We do not plan to augment our troops and it is not necessary.”

For a few European countries, Afghanistan provides an alternative to an even more unpopular mission in Iraq. In February, the British government announced 1,400 more British troops for Afghanistan at the same time it was releasing plans to withdraw 1,600 soldiers from Iraq. And Denmark is bolstering its small Afghan deployment by 200 soldiers at the same time it is pulling its entire 500-strong contingent out of Iraq.

Around Europe, concerns about the Afghan mission occupy a prominent place within mainstream public discourse. Last week, the former chief of the British defence staff told the House of Lords that “the situation in Afghanistan is much, much more serious than people want to recognize.” This week, The Daily Telegraph reported that British troops on the front lines in Afghanistan were experiencing almost as high a casualty rate as British troops during the Second World War.

Two months ago, former Dutch defence minister Joris Voorhoeve warned that the Dutch involvement in Afghanistan would be an “endless mission” unless the country set clear limits on the availability of its troops. “If we do not make it clear to our allies that they cannot count on us indefinitely, then things will go wrong. We should not be the victim of our own idealism.”

From country to country, support for the NATO mission is wearing thin. The roughly 15 million Canadians who want our soldiers brought home are part of a multinational majority. When we speak up, we are not alone.

Michael Byers is the author of Intent for a Nation.

Byers would have been more honest had he said that “about half” of Canadians do not support the mission.  That's not quite the same as saying they are opposed - scepticism based on disinformation is the order of the day.

He’s also correct, I think, that most (just many?) Europeans (peoples and governments):

1. Only go to/stay in Afghanistan because it’s an alternative to Iraq.  That is why Jean Chrétien sent the CF to Afghanistan in 2003.

2. Want out, soon - even when their troops are 'safe' areas.

However, Byers does misrepresent what Field Marshal Lord Inge said.  Byers hints that Inge is a critic of the war – quite the contrary he wants more and better operations in Afghanistan; he wants to ‘stay the course’ and win.



 
Unlike us, people across Europe have stronger memories of wartime suffering.  This is likely a factor in the reported increasing lack of support. 

 
I quote the piece. There will be no European nation ready, willing and able to step up to the plate and relieve Canada in combat in Kandahar [/color] The Americans, even after they manage, somehow, to extricate themselves from Iraq, will be unwilling to relieve us in Kandahar; they re sick and tired of wars in dirty, poor, hostile, far away places.  Kandahar is the largest of Afghanistan’s 34 provinces.  It is the ‘home’ of the Taliban and of the powerful Pashtun people.  It is also essential to Afghanistan’s survival as a cohesive nation-state.

Let me get this right. This is a war, generated by an Al Qaeda attack on New York, and followed by Al Qaeda attacks in Europe. After initial retribution (re Minister O'Connor) now the UN, the US and Europe wish to ensure the survival of that state and turn it into a prosperous democracy. However, the UN/US/Europe are tired of far away wars and unwilling to provide the ressources. Therefore Canada must undertake this job until it is fully completed.

Please remind me once again why Canada has greater interests in creating a Western-style, democratic state of Afghanistan when the UN/US/Europe, not to speak of its middle-eastern neighbours, are admittedly tired and unwilling to provide the troops or the money.

It is admirable to encourage our soldiers in their dangerous and demanding mission. But those of us no longer in uniform also owe it to our soldiers to give them a mission that makes sense, reflects Canada's interests and, above all, is do-able. The Ruxted's group's suggestion that our small Army must press on where the US and the Europeans fear to tread, seems to be slightly more audacious than many of us would enjoy.

 
Agent 007 said:
I quote the piece. There will be no European nation ready, willing and able to step up to the plate and relieve Canada in combat in Kandahar [/color] The Americans, even after they manage, somehow, to extricate themselves from Iraq, will be unwilling to relieve us in Kandahar; they re sick and tired of wars in dirty, poor, hostile, far away places.  Kandahar is the largest of Afghanistan’s 34 provinces.  It is the ‘home’ of the Taliban and of the powerful Pashtun people.  It is also essential to Afghanistan’s survival as a cohesive nation-state.

Let me get this right. This is a war, generated by an Al Qaeda attack on New York, and followed by Al Qaeda attacks in Europe. After initial retribution (re Minister O'Connor) now the UN, the US and Europe wish to ensure the survival of that state and turn it into a prosperous democracy. However, the UN/US/Europe are tired of far away wars and unwilling to provide the ressources. Therefore Canada must undertake this job until it is fully completed.

Please remind me once again why Canada has greater interests in creating a Western-style, democratic state of Afghanistan when the UN/US/Europe, not to speak of its middle-eastern neighbours, are admittedly tired and unwilling to provide the troops or the money.

It is admirable to encourage our soldiers in their dangerous and demanding mission. But those of us no longer in uniform also owe it to our soldiers to give them a mission that makes sense, reflects Canada's interests and, above all, is do-able. The Ruxted's group's suggestion that our small Army must press on where the US and the Europeans fear to tread, seems to be slightly more audacious than many of us would enjoy.

We are not going to create "a Western-style, democratic state of Afghanistan" - anyone who believes that will happen in my great-grand-children's lifetimes is smoking something illegal.  What we are trying to do is to create sufficient security (à la Malosw's hierarchy of needs) to enable the Afghans to decide their own socio-political future, in their own (almost certainly far less than liberal-democratic) way.  We may not – I'm guessing will not – like all the decisions they make but, so long as their decisions do not materially worsen our vital interests we mustn't worry too much.  They have a long, hard, uneven and uphill road to follow – which includes how to deal with Pakistan, sooner rather than later.  They are starting from well behind the power curve.  For thirty plus years they were war ravaged and then under the Taliban's brutal, medieval thumb.  Are they somehow undeserving of some, fairly modest, help from Canada.

We have no greater interest in Afghanistan that the Europeans but no less, either.  The fact that al Qaeda was able to exploit the Taliban to turn Afghanistan into a secure base (that's what al qaeda means, by the way: base) from which they could attack the West means that we all have an interest in preventing that from happening again.  But the Euros have some problems we do not share: they have very large and increasingly restless Muslim underclasses and the Arabs have them in an energy stranglehold.  It's a bit hard to blame them for hedging a bit.

The US and UK do not fear to tread in Afghanistan but Iraq has sapped public support and governing is, at bottom, all about politics, isn't it?
 
Watched the video,where was this guy from? and he delcined to say who hated us.I know the Taliban don`t like to see Canadian coming...............
 
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