Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[OldSolduer]

Maybe what's needed are slightly different rules for really big "nationally important" projects when validated operational requirements, politics, industrial strategies and big money all collide.

My sense is that the first validated operational requirements is a HUGE problem. I think that some senior officials in the centre (PMO, Finance and TB) think that our admirals and generals want to buy "toys for the boys" rather than what the country actually needs. My sense, again and it's just that, not a fact, is that Wayne Eyre and Frances Allen and all the rest are, simply, not trusted to act in a responsible, professional manner.

I don't know if this is a strictly Canadian issue - it seems the USA has very little difficulty in trusting Generals and Admirals - but politicians seem to not trust our senior uniformed people that actually know what is required.

Plus we all know the Liberal NDP coalition really don't like the CAF.

 

[WLSC]

RUMINT: DND (the MND's office) gave Freeland a fairly hefty proposal ~ several (something in excess of 60) Billion dollars ~ mostly for North American/Arctic defence ~ that was late coming in but that wasn't the problem. Very, very senior officials in Finance and TB and the PMO all agree that DND and Procurement and Supply cannot manage anything more than $6.1 Billion, and they are not sure they can even manage that.

The consensus amongst the bureaucratic grownups is that DND, especially, is totally ph_cked in so far as being able to actually put some muscle on to the bare bones of a "plan" is concerned. Procurement and Supply is said to be a) over-burdened, already; b) hide-bound; and c) technologically challenged.

Finance, it is suggested, will be happy to provide more money for defence when/IF both the procurement system and DND's management (civil and military) are reformed.

So, we are asking that self liking ice-cream to reform itself?

 

[Booter]

So, how much of that new money can be used to hire civilians as protect managers, supply managers, and contracting officers?

So, I’m taking control of a 20 million dollar civilian project managed asset. It’s an absolute operational nightmare and has been working the year I’ve sat on the board. I’m not sure you’ll find them any better.

As long as it’s bloat and just making jobs for Canadians I don’t see solutions. The shift needs to be towards being operationally successful.

I’m certain the money isn’t the issue. It’s the attitude of bureaucrats and politicians directing what the operation should “present” like.

Instead of being lean and deadly and ready to harvest souls- we have to look like some other soft function and a good career opportunity first and foremost!

 

[WLSC]

Maybe what's needed are slightly different rules for really big "nationally important" projects when validated operational requirements, politics, industrial strategies and big money all collide.

My sense is that the first validated operational requirements is a HUGE problem. I think that some senior officials in the centre (PMO, Finance and TB) think that our admirals and generals want to buy "toys for the boys" rather than what the country actually needs. My sense, again and it's just that, not a fact, is that Wayne Eyre and Frances Allen and all the rest are, simply, not trusted to act in a responsible, professional manner.

It could be God himself as the CDS that PMO would not trust him.

 

[Dale Denton]

Plus we all know the Liberal NDP coalition really don't like the CAF.

I don't, please describe their 'dislike', and how it differs from the other parties.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I don't know if this is a strictly Canadian issue - it seems the USA has very little difficulty in trusting Generals and Admirals - but politicians seem to not trust our senior uniformed people that actually know what is required.

Plus we all know the Liberal NDP coalition really don't like the CAF.

Some (many?) senior civil servants do not believe that most admirals and generals actually understand or are well equipped to decide how the armed forces should be equipped for the next war. That's a basic trust issue ~ that this that we you they are, usually, busy fighting the last war rather than planning for the next one.

Some of them go father and take the view that, except for some bits of technical advice of specific issues, military officers ought not to be involved in deciding how the military is organized, armed, staffed or equipped. There is some (actually quite a lot of) constitutional validity in that view.

My sense is that the first view is more common but the latter is held by a handful of really, really important people.

 

[OldSolduer]

I don't, please describe their 'dislike', and how it differs from the other parties.

the NDP is downright contemptuous, the Liberals only slightly less so.

 

[WLSC]

Some (many?) senior civil servants do not believe that most admirals and generals actually understand or are well equipped to decide how the armed forces should be equipped for the next war. That's a basic trust issue ~ that this that we you they are, usually, busy fighting the last war rather than planning for the next one.

Some of them go father and take the view that, except for some bits of technical advice of specific issues, military officers ought not to be involved in deciding how the military is organized, armed, staffed or equipped. There is some (actually quite a lot of) constitutional validity in that view.

My sense is that the first view is more common but the latter is held by a handful of really, really important people.

Well, let all those senior public servant put an FFO on and do the job. If those influential people doesn’t trust us, why bother than? Let just close the shop! It will always be the same thing.

 

[lenaitch]

I don't, please describe their 'dislike', and how it differs from the other parties.

Well, the are the only party that actually internally debated whether the military should be abolished. It failed, but is seems the existing party platform only sees its existence for domestic operations and peacekeeping, and ensuring that it buys Canadian-made stuff.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Well, let all those senior public servant put an FFO on and do the job. If those influential people doesn’t trust us, why bother than? Let just close the shop! It will always be the same thing.

Now you're reading my mind!

I put my name in the Supp Res, told them they can call me when they get serious again

 

[dapaterson]

Well, let all those senior public servant put an FFO on and do the job. If those influential people doesn’t trust us, why bother than? Let just close the shop! It will always be the same thing.

Explain to me how an infantry officer is trained to understand procurement.

When the CAF insists on inserting military personnel who are at best enthusiastic amateurs into procurement, results suffer.

 

[WLSC]

Now you're reading my mind!

I put my name in the Supp Res, told them they can call me when they get serious again

I can’t but since tonight even if I could, I wouldn’t

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Explain to me how an infantry officer is trained to understand procurement.

When the CAF insists on inserting military personnel who are at best enthusiastic amateurs into procurement, results suffer.

Imagine if we had these things called aptitude tests and this other thing called, Tech Staff, which we didn't pay complete lip service to.

Btw, I used to work for an Infantry Officer who was #1 in Mech Eng at UofT. They also went to Tech Staff but then basically never used any of it because the Army felt no need to employ this individual in that capacity.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Leslie doesn't pull any punches for his former party of choice..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1512170692942475269

Maybe he should consider running again for the Conservatives in the next election…

 

[WLSC]

Explain to me how an infantry officer is trained to understand procurement.

When the CAF insists on inserting military personnel who are at best enthusiastic amateurs into procurement, results suffer.

It is a figure of speech. Procurement is one thing on which I don’t know a lot expect that our system is so broken that we can’t buy nothing more than what, PPNS by ourself?

That’s not the point. The point is if all those influential people believe that we want kit just for fun and do not even bother to look out side our there office in other grownups/adult/serious countries to compare our demand well maybe they need to live the dream and do the job with what we don’t have (has in on paper we have javelin) for a reality check.

I know it won’t happen. I just dream that those people need to listen to us, which I not sure they really care much. Don’t get me wrong, I know that there is superb civi servant, just not at the level we need.

 

[GR66]

Some (many?) senior civil servants do not believe that most admirals and generals actually understand or are well equipped to decide how the armed forces should be equipped for the next war. That's a basic trust issue ~ that this that we you they are, usually, busy fighting the last war rather than planning for the next one.

Some of them go father and take the view that, except for some bits of technical advice of specific issues, military officers ought not to be involved in deciding how the military is organized, armed, staffed or equipped. There is some (actually quite a lot of) constitutional validity in that view.

My sense is that the first view is more common but the latter is held by a handful of really, really important people.

Maybe the civil servants think that because they read the "Force 2025" proposals?

 

[Kirkhill]

Imagine if we had these things called aptitude tests and this other thing called, Tech Staff, which we didn't pay complete lip service to.

Btw, I used to work for an Infantry Officer who was #1 in Mech Eng at UofT. They also went to Tech Staff but then basically never used any of it because the Army felt no need to employ this individual in that capacity.

I'm way past chuckles. I can't even get depressed. I am just numb.

 

[Czech_pivo]

How 7 of our Allies are moving forward.

Seven European nations have increased defense budgets in one month. Who will be next? - Breaking Defense

Germany, Belgium, Romania, Italy, Poland, Norway and Sweden have all pledged to increase defense spending since Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

breakingdefense.com

 

[WLSC]

Imagine if we had these things called aptitude tests and this other thing called, Tech Staff, which we didn't pay complete lip service to.

Btw, I used to work for an Infantry Officer who was #1 in Mech Eng at UofT. They also went to Tech Staff but then basically never used any of it because the Army felt no need to employ this individual in that capacity.

Where is that face palm emoji

 

[Good2Golf]

Explain to me how an infantry officer is trained to understand procurement.

When the CAF insists on inserting military personnel who are at best enthusiastic amateurs into procurement, results suffer.

So other than some LPO, what ‘procurement’ is DND actually allowed to do? I mean as opposed to what a 100% civilian staffed department that has….you know…the word ‘Procurement’ in its title…

If only the Government had come to know that major capital project related procurement is problematic before this week…