New Dress Regs 🤣

[Humphrey Bogart]

People keep talking about our credibility.

I have a couple uneducated points WRT this:

1) You know what builds credibility ? Capability. Want us to be credible ? Have capability to bring to the battle space. That will speak louder than finger nail maintenance.

2) We (The West) are continually, soundly beaten and sent packing by disorganized mish-mash forces in man jammies with what ever weapons they can scrape up. They don't seem to fret much on hair color or if pants or skirts should be worn by who ever.

Anyways, I imagine this will be a bridge too far for some, and that's fair; unlike others I think this is a big change. And its firmly leaving behind a period of our history and probably culture. If its too much and you chose not to continue I would like to thank you for stepping forward and being accounted for while you were in. I'm sure you served with pride and I wish you the best in the future.

Now if we had that, I bet our recruitment would be a lot better and people would quickly forget about painting nails and hair colour

 

[Halifax Tar]

I agree totally with this belief. I also think that if Bloggins is riding a desk for most of their career in Ottawa, their concerns about operational environments is far lower than someone crashing through the bush for months on end in a Battalion.

I have been on Category for 7 years for shaving (like a legitimate one. I developed eczema overseas from using dirty water). I can amd do maintain my beard to the standards set in the CFDI. When I deploy, if the threat exists operationally, I will shave it off. It's a practical reason for me to need to do it. Me needing to shave every day because "but what if..." or "I'm the SSM and I say no beard!" is ridiculous.

The same will end up happening with this. Those that have a desire or need to modify their appearance will have the avenue to. Safety and operational performance will always be maintained above personal "wants" (they aren't rights in this case).

As I have said earlier, wait until the first ship sails or the first Bde Ex. What's cool in Garrison is a pain in the ass when you're short on water or that combat scarf gets annoying 24/7.

Just because the door is open doesn't mean everyone is going to walk through it. I certainly won't be, but I won't harp on people who do.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I think this is really the thing; maintaining long hair, fancy beards, hair dye, nails etc takes time and effort. If you are rocking an office job, you do you.

If you have time to do all of this while deployed, you probably aren't pulling your weight, or your deployment job could maybe be done from Canada. I suspect most people will have an 'office standard' then put their game face on because they just can't be arsed on deployment.

This will be an interesting one for OUTCAN posting; suspect a lot of them will just follow local dress standards for grooming, at least for things like requiring a natural hair colour.

 

[ueo]

This is just a addition as to why it is becoming a joke. There isn’t much that instills me with pride in this organization. We are unable to do our job (protect Canada) without significant assistance of foreign forces (mainly the US). We are poorly equipped with aging equipment which has no intentions of being replaced. We have a ton of out of shape troops whose uniforms I have to wonder if ‘Woods’ (the tent company) made them. We constantly are lowering our standards instead of trying to bring the standards up. We have toxic work environments where people are afraid to speak their mind or make a joke for fear of it being taken wrong. Can you explain to me how our military isn’t much of a joke?

Yes I am against anyone having long hair in the field, even women, it works fine for the low intensity conflicts we have fought for the last while, but for a higher intensity one we should default to the easiest to maintain length (i.e. short). I have had long hair and short hair and can tell you that the amount of effort needed to maintain long hair is wasted effort when it could be spent on other things in war.

As to hair colour, it can make you more visible on top of the maintenance issues. It can have security issues, as are we going to reissue IDs every time someone changes hair colour? Or if it significantly fades? Plus even in your sailor or aircraft maintainer they are all CAF members and can be posted anywhere or do anything the CAF requires of them. They may at some point be called upon to be armed and have to fight someone. Lets pause getting shot at for a second, need to put my scarf on.

Another factor is how relations are viewed by both our public and foreign dignatories, militaries, and their public in case of us fighting on another nations soil. Having a professional appearance matters, as much as some of us like to pretend it doesn’t.

Your probably right about most people not taking advantage of it, its more the fact some can and will push it right to its limits like some people always will.

Sounds like the "Mother" army of Holland in the 60's Doesn;t it?

 

[ueo]

Not too many long-haired men, to be honest...

At any rate, this new policy doesn't resolve the number one issue that ruins my hair: having to wear a god damn hat everywhere! Who even wears hats anymore in Canadian society!?

Every "red blooded" male in his !/2 t truck!

It's a form of Freedom of Expression protected under section 2(b) of the Charter. Granted, if we continued to bar it it'd probably survive the challenge via the Oakes test, but it's still a protected right. How you choose to present yourself to the world, via hair, clothes, etc is absolutely a human right.

I call BS!!!! Never read about this wvev in the fine print.

 

[ueo]

I think it'd be quite reasonable to make the argument that going nude in public is an aspect of freedom of expression, however again, laws against it are something that the government would be very easily able to make a case for under the Oakes test.

Oakes Test? Olease define in a few words.

 

[Kilted]

I'm just waiting for the first complaint because someone gets passed over for the National Sentry program because they have pink hair.


That just gave me an awful thought, people dying their hair two weeks before Remembrance Day to get out of things like Cenotaph Guard or speaking engagements.

 

[Remius]

I'm just waiting for the first complaint because someone gets passed over for the National Sentry program because they have pink hair.


That just gave me an awful thought, people dying their hair two weeks before Remembrance Day to get out of things like Cenotaph Guard or speaking engagements.

The cenotaph guard is not just some « voluntold » task. There is a nomination process, vetting and bios provided. Switched on people are selected for that and it’s taken very seriously by those that do it.

Speaking engagements are normally volunteer based on November 11th.

I believe there are rules in the dress regs for ceremonial.

 

[Quirky]

Suffice it to say that I do not feel there is any evidence to back up your implied assertion that simply wanting hair that isn't boring is directly tied to mental illness. People can make choices that you wouldn't make without being literally crazy.

"Boring" aka natural vs unnatural self-dyed hair colors is one of the signs of mental illness and those who struggle with self-image problems. Please dye your hair a crazy color go out in public in uniform and see the reactions, I can guarantee you it won't be positive. Our larger bases are in primarily conservative areas of the country, you might have a more positive reaction in Ottawa vs say a base on the prairies. Reactions to these dress changes were largely negative by the public and will only further erode our legitimacy. I won't take you seriously with a full head of pink or purple hair, you are free to "express" yourself, but that's the way it is.

I'm just waiting for the first complaint because someone gets passed over for the National Sentry program because they have pink hair.

That just gave me an awful thought, people dying their hair two weeks before Remembrance Day to get out of things like Cenotaph Guard or speaking engagements.

On the contrary, bring only pink and purple hair for the next Ottawa RD parade. Circus is in town.

 

[Kilted]

The cenotaph guard is not just some « voluntold » task. There is a nomination process, vetting and bios provided. Switched on people are selected for that and it’s taken very seriously by those that do it.

Speaking engagements are normally volunteer based on November 11th.

I believe there are rules in the dress regs for ceremonial.

I'm not talking about the service at the National War Memorial, I'm talking about every other cenotaph in the country, which sometimes the selection of the guard comes down to who has the right uniform.

As far as speaking engagements go, I'm sure it's possible for them to be voluntary, but the majority of the ones I have seen have not been, especially if they fall on the actual day.

 

[QV]

Now if we had that, I bet our recruitment would be a lot better and people would quickly forget about painting nails and hair colour

This is classic CAF doing the opposite of what will be helpful.

Sure, make some modern adjustments to dress and deportment... and lets get capability back (which will improve morale, retention, recruitment).

CAF: "Pink hair don't care"

 

[Halifax Tar]

"Boring" aka natural vs unnatural self-dyed hair colors is one of the signs of mental illness and those who struggle with self-image problems.

Do you have any actual peer reviewed medical or psychological publications or statistics to support this summation ?

You, or someone else perhaps, have said it a few times in this thread and I have never heard of such a thing.

 

[mariomike]

why do we spend so much time focusing on being ready for dog and pony shows?

Funding? That includes public support for pay and benefit increases.

Please dye your hair a crazy color go out in public in uniform and see the reactions, I can guarantee you it won't be positive. Our larger bases are in primarily conservative areas of the country, you might have a more positive reaction in Ottawa vs say a base on the prairies. Reactions to these dress changes were largely negative by the public and will only further erode our legitimacy. I won't take you seriously with a full head of pink or purple hair, you are free to "express" yourself, but that's the way it is.

 

[Grimey]

I want my 8 button jacket. I heard that is a human right now.

You got your exec curl back, suck it up

 

[Halifax Tar]

I want my 8 button jacket. I heard that is a human right now.

Executive Curl - Check
New RN Styled Peaked Caps - Check
New NCM Rank Insignia - Nope
8 Button Jacket - Nope

2/4 is a .500 batting average, not bad.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Do you have any actual peer reviewed medical or psychological publications or statistics to support this summation ?

Studies, synopses, and discussions are easy to find with web searches. Much of it seems equivocal to me; it almost all leans the same way so I doubt it's all wrong. Behaviours typically mentioned are risk-taking and attention-seeking, along with greater likelihood of having some kind of mental health diagnosis (which is broad but still not meaningless). Expect to find lower rates as time passes and more people indulge in body art. Obviously some kinds of body art are markers intended to signal membership in a tribe.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I got my new peak cap in the mail recently; it looks cheap AF and kind of Soviet.

At least it no longer comes with a packing ring for shipping for people to leave in, and then complain it doesn't fit their heads properly.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Studies, synopses, and discussions are easy to find with web searches. Much of it seems equivocal to me; it almost all leans the same way so I doubt it's all wrong. Behaviours typically mentioned are risk-taking and attention-seeking, along with greater likelihood of having some kind of mental health diagnosis (which is broad but still not meaningless). Expect to find lower rates as time passes and more people indulge in body art. Obviously some kinds of body art are markers intended to signal membership in a tribe.

Its not my job to support someone else position. But I did google it and I got responses from sites like thedailycougar.com (Nope), quora.com (Nope) and Reddit. If you can actually provide some empirical data and not just some anonymous opinions I would love to see it. I'm a father, I am always interested what to look for to ensure my daughter grows up happy, healthy and well adjusted.

Body art in militaries isn't something new. I have a bunch of tattoos and some body piercings, when I first got in one or two tattoos wasn't uncommon in society or the CAF. Now Tattoos are pretty common, its rare to find someone with out them. Im also pretty well grounded, wife, kid, house, camp, two dogs, no criminal record, never needed mental help...

I got my new peak cap in the mail recently; it looks cheap AF and kind of Soviet.

At least it no longer comes with a packing ring for shipping for people to leave in, and then complain it doesn't fit their heads properly.

I agree, I found it looks Soviet and I am not convinced of its quality.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Studies, synopses, and discussions are easy to find with web searches. Much of it seems equivocal to me; it almost all leans the same way so I doubt it's all wrong. Behaviours typically mentioned are risk-taking and attention-seeking, along with greater likelihood of having some kind of mental health diagnosis (which is broad but still not meaningless). Expect to find lower rates as time passes and more people indulge in body art. Obviously some kinds of body art are markers intended to signal membership in a tribe.

The keywords you'll want are 'comobidity; and either transgender or gender dismorphia.

Much higher rates of suicidiation, depression and various other MH issues compared to the rest of the population, but because it's such a small sample size who knows. Also much higher rates of suicide post-transition compared to the population. Stong arguement that might be due to a lack of acceptance in wider society.

Having said that, there are other populations that also have higher rates of co-morbidities than the rest of the population like folks with ASD or otherwise neurodivergent (ND), and plenty of people in the majority that also have MH issues. We evaluate people on a case by case basis, not with what group they fall into, which I think is the right approach. Lots of folks with ASD (especially with how broad the criteria is now) that excel in the CAF, but it's a blanket recruitment disqualifier for the US and some other allies.

I don't think we'll ever really understand how the brain works, and even with all the improved techniques now for scanning etc it's not even scratching the surface, so all we can do is screen people during recruitment, evaluate their performance during training and go from there. Still not a guarantee of performance in a real combat situation, but do the best you can. At the end of the day though, not up to the CAF to right general societal wrongs by hiring people that aren't capable of doing the job, and I think regardless of how they identify or what colour their hair is, it would be negligent to put people in dangerous situations if they can't handle it.

I personally don't care about the dress code changes, and don't think most people will even bother to do something that's more work than not doing it, but I think it would be stupid to screen people out because of how they want to dress. I used to have long hair, occasionally dyed, sometimes a mohawk, but honestly just too much work. I think the uptake on this will be low, and a lot of people that do it because they can will not keep it up long (because again, more extra effort), but this is just a distraction for the fact that we are massively overplanned and under-staffed.

Making real changes is bringing our staffing numbers up above 50%, slapping down and punting people that abuse their authority, and rebuilding our forces. This shit is a headline that will make 10 people happy and take up high level resources. The change has been made, roger, lets move on to big issues that are creating significant operational/capability risks and putting people in unecessary danger/stress.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Try "research tattoo piercing behaviour". Maybe also try something other than "G" as search engine so you're not getting whatever "G" thinks is relevant/acceptable.