Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[MilEME09]

That message isn't for CAF members - we (the CAF, not Cpl Bloggins in 2nd Bn Hockey Sock Regiment) know what our readiness is like.

Oh I am aware, but even this message, I do not think Canadians care. I think our minister does, but she needs other departments to clean up their act too

 

[Edward Campbell]

Oh I am aware, but even this message, I do not think Canadians care. I think our minister does, but she needs other departments to clean up their act too

I think that's the key and I think that both Primer Minister Trudeau and Pierre Poilievre know it and that's why neither talks much and certainly not seriously about rebuilding our national hard power. They are both retail politicians and they are both in the business of giving us what we ask for - maybe a handful of us ask for more defence, maybe even a slightly higher number than ask for new, government funded symphony orchestras and opera houses.

 

[MilEME09]

I think that's the key and I think that both Primer Minister Trudeau and Pierre Poilievre know it and that's why neither talks much and certainly not seriously about rebuilding our national hard power. They are both retail politicians and they are both in the business of giving us what we ask for - maybe a handful of us ask for more defence, maybe even a slightly higher number than ask for new, government funded symphony orchestras and opera houses.

My hope is how things are going, we may see a change in the coming years

 

[rmc_wannabe]

My hope is how things are going, we may see a change in the coming years

You might be correct. I have had multiple civilians ask me what we have in place to defend cities like Toronto, or Calgary, or Ottawa from the kind of missile attacks we have seen in Kharkiv, Odessa, and Bahkmut.

Their eyes go quite wide when I tell them "thoughts and prayers?"

 

[GR66]

You might be correct. I have had multiple civilians ask me what we have in place to defend cities like Toronto, or Calgary, or Ottawa from the kind of missile attacks we have seen in Kharkiv, Odessa, and Bahkmut.

Their eyes go quite wide when I tell them "thoughts and prayers?"

Did they look at you funny as you rolled around on the ground laughing hilariously???

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Did they look at you funny as you rolled around on the ground laughing hilariously???

No more than usual. I am a Signals Officer after all.

 

[Brad Sallows]

You might be correct. I have had multiple civilians ask me what we have in place to defend cities like Toronto, or Calgary, or Ottawa from the kind of missile attacks we have seen in Kharkiv, Odessa, and Bahkmut.

Their eyes go quite wide when I tell them "thoughts and prayers?"

Now, be truthful. The correct answer is "American good will".

 

[Furniture]

Now, be truthful. The correct answer is "American good will".

If it comes down to Canadian cities being under threat of attack, American "good will" will be busy defending their own cities. Just like American "good will" saw them keep PPE and vaccines for themselves(as they should) when Canada came begging.

Canadian cities are protected by proximity to the USA, two large oceans, and "thoughts and prayers".

 

[WestIsle]

‘History will tell’ if Canada’s military facing new decade of darkness: defence chief - National | Globalnews.ca

"History will tell," said Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Wayne Eyre in an interview with The West Block's Mercedes Stephenson, airing in full on Sunday.

globalnews.ca

.
.
....alright then

 

[Colin Parkinson]

You might be correct. I have had multiple civilians ask me what we have in place to defend cities like Toronto, or Calgary, or Ottawa from the kind of missile attacks we have seen in Kharkiv, Odessa, and Bahkmut.

Their eyes go quite wide when I tell them "thoughts and prayers?"

Prayers was so 2014, now we have Thoughts and Socks.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Now, be truthful. The correct answer is "American good will".

It's been a few years, but in 2017 LGen Pierre St-Amand, then DCinC NORAD, told our parliamentarians that's not the case.

Maybe something has changed while I wasn't looking but the message was:

 

[Brad Sallows]

So the correct answer is closer to "Americans, if smug snotty Canadians haven't pissed them off too much."

 

[Edward Campbell]

So the correct answer is closer to "Americans, if smug snotty Canadians haven't pissed them off too much."

My recollection is that circa 2017 the Americans (Donald J Trump, prop) wanted us in - as a formal partner - because they wanted to integrate, fully, our airspace into the plan. They were not asking for much in the way of money: we would buy a radar or two and add a handful of people to NORAD HQ but, mainly, they wanted us "inside the tent, p!ssing out, rather than outside the tent, p!ssing in" as we normally do. I don't think that the tune (in DC and in Cheyenne Mountain) has changed very much.

 

[Good2Golf]

Nope, still ‘Uncle Sam’s doing it anyway. Johnny Canuck might as well play nice and real re rewards of Incle Sam’s benevolence.’ At least it was when I was in Colorado Springs this November.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I think that's the key and I think that both Primer Minister Trudeau and Pierre Poilievre know it and that's why neither talks much and certainly not seriously about rebuilding our national hard power. They are both retail politicians and they are both in the business of giving us what we ask for - maybe a handful of us ask for more defence, maybe even a slightly higher number than ask for new, government funded symphony orchestras and opera houses.

They are going to give us just enough to waltz us right back into being someone’s colony….

 

[Czech_pivo]

If it comes down to Canadian cities being under threat of attack, American "good will" will be busy defending their own cities. Just like American "good will" saw them keep PPE and vaccines for themselves(as they should) when Canada came begging.

Canadian cities are protected by proximity to the USA, two large oceans, and "thoughts and prayers".

Certain Canadian cities will be protected by the US, places such as:
1) Windsor, due to its proximity to Detroit and it’s remaining auto plant
2) Metro Toronto due to the nuclear power plant east of the city, they don’t want any fallout blowing into upstate NY and the auto plants in Brampton and Oshawa and Hamilton’s remaining steel mill
3) Possibly Montreal due to its location next to the shipping locks into the Great Lakes
4) Edmonton possibly due to its proximity to the oil sands
5) Vancouver due to its proximity to Seattle
6) Possibly the area around the old Alcan aluminum plant in Quebec if it’s targeted

I don’t really see any other minor/major CDN cities being under the US umbrella.

 

[dimsum]

Certain Canadian cities will be protected by the US, places such as:
1) Windsor, due to its proximity to Detroit and it’s remaining auto plant
2) Metro Toronto due to the nuclear power plant east of the city, they don’t want any fallout blowing into upstate NY and the auto plants in Brampton and Oshawa and Hamilton’s remaining steel mill
3) Possibly Montreal due to its location next to the shipping locks into the Great Lakes
4) Edmonton possibly due to its proximity to the oil sands
5) Vancouver due to its proximity to Seattle
6) Possibly the area around the old Alcan aluminum plant in Quebec if it’s targeted

I don’t really see any other minor/major CDN cities being under the US umbrella.

Winnipeg. Not just because of NORAD but as a rail transportation hub as a northern alternative to Chicago, etc.

 

[GR66]

Certain Canadian cities will be protected by the US, places such as:
1) Windsor, due to its proximity to Detroit and it’s remaining auto plant
2) Metro Toronto due to the nuclear power plant east of the city, they don’t want any fallout blowing into upstate NY and the auto plants in Brampton and Oshawa and Hamilton’s remaining steel mill
3) Possibly Montreal due to its location next to the shipping locks into the Great Lakes
4) Edmonton possibly due to its proximity to the oil sands
5) Vancouver due to its proximity to Seattle
6) Possibly the area around the old Alcan aluminum plant in Quebec if it’s targeted

I don’t really see any other minor/major CDN cities being under the US umbrella.

I think they'll be more concerned about protecting their own transportation networks over ours. And as far as fall-out from Pickering goes, again I think they'll be more worried about the radiation from an actual missile striking their own territory over radiation from Canada drifting over their territory.

Windsor and Vancouver may be protected just due to proximity to US cities, but assuming it's a massive nuclear attack vs a couple of nukes from North Korea I wouldn't count on the US protecting Canada. They'll prefer to have multiple interceptors per warhead incoming to their territory in order to maximize their chances of successful intercepts rather than directing some to defend Canada at the risk of some missiles making it through to US territory.

IMHO anyway.

 

[daftandbarmy]

That message isn't for CAF members - we (the CAF, not Cpl Bloggins in 2nd Bn Hockey Sock Regiment) know what our readiness is like.

He keeps saying we aren't ready.

I wonder how long he'll keep his job?

 

[MilEME09]

He keeps saying we aren't ready.

I wonder how long he'll keep his job?

I think the minister is backing him up, they want the public to know the CAF isn't in a good spot. Perhaps to get the conversation about degebde back into the lime light