Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Only the eastern portion of the St Lawrence, the rest are RCMP, Ranger/FN guardians territory. You have Naval Reserve units already in Vancouver and Victoria, give them the task of protecting these two ports from the inland side, the RCN proper protects the Shipping lanes and outer coasts. The CB 90's gives some flexibility to land a armed party almost anywhere on BC coastline and the speed to deploy there from either base in 24hrs.

Put similar boats in the Western and Eastern Arctic, perhaps Tuk on the western side. You have to start manning it with Southerners at first, but slowly build a marine version of the Rangers. They operate in the summer months, hauled out for winter and stored in hangers, where training and maintenance can take place. They can provide presence patrols, support the Rangers, RCMP and CBSA doing shipping inspections, SAR, medical evacs. Plus they can work with the AOP's as they move through their patrol areas..

 

[dimsum]

Might want to generate an enclosed cabin version for Canada's waters, but still....

Ghosts of WWII HMC Corvette crews enter the chat

"Back in my day, we sailed the North Atlantic in open bridges"

 

[YZT580]

I used to call it coincidence.... now I am not so sure



No sooner noted than another horse presents itself. Thanks to don3wing...



No. Not his useful link to the DHC-515 article but the follow on article.

Coming to Canada: The Whiskey Multi Mission Reconnaissance Craft​

Coming to Canada: The Whiskey Multi Mission Reconnaissance Craft – Vanguard

vanguardcanada.com

View attachment 78202


Might want to generate an enclosed cabin version for Canada's waters, but still....

MMRC.... redesignate as MMRRC (Multi Mission Reconnaissance and Rescue Craft) and paint some orange.





View attachment 78203

If you want to build a presence and small boat skills then operate launches on those waters. Equip them with an RWS like the TAPVs but keep the guns in a gun-locker.

no weapons on the Great Lakes but doesn't mean you can't install the mounting hardware. Regardless of jurisdiction having a reserve unit with boats in places like Saskatoon, Lake Winnipeg and North Bay may be a good way to recruit and train up reservists. Maintain their current jobs, train for navy and kept current all without going away for 3 months until called up (would it work?)

 

[KevinB]

For Afghanistan the request was made early in September 2006. The government approved the deployment of a 15 tank squadron and an armoured engineer troop on the 15th of September. The first tank arrived in theatre on the 3rd of October. The tanks were originally ready to forward deploy in November but the Dutch commander of ISAF RC(S) held that up until Lavoie, coming back from HTLA, convinced him that a 105mm round from a tank was a kinder and gentler way of dealing with strongpoints than a 155mm HE or a 500 lb bomb. With ISAF approval granted, the tanks forward deployed on 2 Dec 2006.

Wouldn’t that be 120mm from the Leo2

 

[KevinB]

no weapons on the Great Lakes but doesn't mean you can't install the mounting hardware. Regardless of jurisdiction having a reserve unit with boats in places like Saskatoon, Lake Winnipeg and North Bay may be a good way to recruit and train up reservists. Maintain their current jobs, train for navy and kept current all without going away for 3 months until called up (would it work?)

I don’t think the weapons on that would contravene the GL rules.
It’s a small boat - so the C-16 GMG would be the largest thing on it, and given we have Mk19’s on some stuff that trains on Lake Michigan, I doubt it’s an issue.

 

[Kirkhill]

no weapons on the Great Lakes but doesn't mean you can't install the mounting hardware. Regardless of jurisdiction having a reserve unit with boats in places like Saskatoon, Lake Winnipeg and North Bay may be a good way to recruit and train up reservists. Maintain their current jobs, train for navy and kept current all without going away for 3 months until called up (would it work?)

I think that was modified ca 2006? I know it is a CBC report but...

U.S. to put machine guns on Great Lakes cutters​

CBC News · Posted: Mar 15, 2006 6:54 AM MST | Last Updated: March 15, 2006

U.S. Coast Guard vessels on the Great Lakes will soon be armed, marking the first time weapons have been authorized on boats patrolling the inland waters bordering Canada and the United States since 1817.

Petty Officer William Colclough said 7.62-mm machine guns will be stored below decks of the coast guard's 11 Great Lakes cutters and will be mounted only when needed.

Warning shots will be fired when vessels refuse to stop, said Colclough, who is based at the U.S. Coast Guard's Great Lakes headquarters in Cleveland.

Colclough said staff have already conducted live-fire drills in American waters off the coast of Sault Ste-Marie, Ont.

Demilitarization dates back to 1817

In the Rush-Bagot treaty of 1817, the two countries agreed to demilitarize Great Lakes waters.

The treaty followed the War of 1812, which saw Canadian and American forces wage violent battles on Lake Erie and Lake Huron.

Its provisions have now been reinterpreted because of U.S. concerns about customs violations, human smuggling and international terrorism.

An official with Foreign Affairs says Canada has agreed to read the treaty in such a way that machine guns of sizes up to .50 caliber will be considered weapons of law enforcement rather than weapons of war.

So perhaps something like this? With the gun stowed?

PROTECTOR RWS

The PROTECTOR RWS is the world’s most fielded Remote Weapon System with more than 20,000 units delivered and in use by customers around the globe

www.kongsberg.com

And revised the map to add a few more Northern Rivers of interest for the Rangers. Those rivers all have communities along them

 

[KevinB]

It doesn’t apply to training - just patrolling vessels.
So you can put stuff on for Military Training — as long as it isn’t doing Coast Guard or LE patrol type work.

 

[FJAG]

Wouldn’t that be 120mm from the Leo2

No. The Leopard C2 was the first tank deployed. They came out of existing Canadian stocks and carried a 105mm. They were replaced by the German/Dutch Leo 2 the year after.

 

[KevinB]

No. The Leopard C2 was the first tank deployed. They came out of existing Canadian stocks and carried a 105mm. They were replaced by the German/Dutch Leo 2 the year after.

Roger. I hadn’t realized any of those hadn’t been scrapped already.

 

[FJAG]

Roger. I hadn’t realized any of those hadn’t been scrapped already.

I don't think that they'd scrapped any yet but I think only about half of the 100 and some odd fleet were runners. The LdSH had been using some of them as ersatz MGSs as they had been trialling the Direct Fire Unit concept with the ADATS and TUA the year or two previously.

 

[Rifleman62]

I was going to post this in the Ukraine war thread as the YouTube video that linked it stated this is what the Ukraine's will be facing when they start their Offensive.

But IMHO, thought the video may be more appropriate here.

Think the CAF could do this? Dream on.


Click to expand...

We literally validate doing this all the time

And you have ALL the assets in the related video, or is it NOTAL Atk helo's, air superiority, mine breaching specialized vehicles, AFV's etc. etc, etc.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Perun hits another home run.

For some reason, he includes quite a number of Canadian examples…

 

[markppcli]

And you have ALL the assets in the related video, or is it NOTAL Atk helo's, air superiority, mine breaching specialized vehicles, AFV's etc. etc, etc.

Well air superiority is a state not an asset, but yes we have CAS on station. We do this live, with explosive breaches, bales into anti tank ditches, plow tanks and engineers clearing lanes, all the damned time. The only thing we do t include is the attack helo but that’s not a critical asset. It’s a nice to have.

Have you never done a combat team attack / breach ? It is very very common, and involves those assets. I recommend you take a look at the BG in operations to get a sense of the assets have to do these things. I’m also fairly sure if you went on AITIS you could fine the power points and videos for combat team commander.

 

[MilEME09]

I don't think that they'd scrapped any yet but I think only about half of the 100 and some odd fleet were runners. The LdSH had been using some of them as ersatz MGSs as they had been trialling the Direct Fire Unit concept with the ADATS and TUA the year or two previously.

My understanding is the TUA turrets are in storage, could probably be useful put on a LAV.

 

[FJAG]

My understanding is the TUA turrets are in storage, could probably be useful put on a LAV.

I think that you are right but I'm not sure if that's the way to go.

The TUA turret is 2003/5 technology designed to function with the then TOW ITAS which was fairly new at the time and is still in service.

I would think one might be better off to evaluate some of the newer modular turrets currently making their way onto a variety of IFVs. Aside from the cost of acquisition, the modification process would probably be equally expensive.

 

[KevinB]

Sgt Stout

Stryker M-Shorad The Stryker M–SHORAD vehicle provides lethal, mobile and survivable air defense against an array of aerial threats.• Based on the new Stryker A1 chassis, the M–SHORAD enables the Army’s maneuver units for Multi–Domain Operations.• Highlights:– On–board target–acquisition...

www.gdls.com

Now because I hate dual role setups because I see that the CA would simply buy half of what was needed and claim a savings…

I’d suggest that the Infantry and Armoured (Cav) units have the cannon and Hellfire for Anti-Armor (and it’s NLOS capable)

Then the ADA Troops get the Stingers and Cannon

 

[PPCLI Guy]

If an outsider could see this. We are struggling to project obsolescent capability to an Ally so that our political masters can avoid the requirement, moral and otherwise, to equip its own forces. There are days when I wish my parents had chosen to emigrate to a real country

 

[FJAG]

If an outsider could see this. We are struggling to project obsolescent capability to an Ally so that our political masters can avoid the requirement, moral and otherwise, to equip its own forces. There are days when I wish my parents had chosen to emigrate to a real country

Mine almost went to the States. That would have made me a prime candidate for Vietnam.

All things considered ...

 

[Kirkhill]

Dad was for Australia. Mum was for Canada.....

Situation normal.

 

[KevinB]

If an outsider could see this. We are struggling to project obsolescent capability to an Ally so that our political masters can avoid the requirement, moral and otherwise, to equip its own forces. There are days when I wish my parents had chosen to emigrate to a real country

While as one of the first to enjoy throwing Canada under the bus, no country is perfect.

Canadians have made a choice - or been ambivalent enough to not make a choice about the needs of the CAF.

It’s fairly disappointing to watch, especially due to the time I spent in the CAF.


While at least my tax dollars down here go towards a fairly robust DoD, we have a fair amount of other issues…