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Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

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I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....
 
Would we not want more ssk's? Less crew and long term less maintenance cost I thought?
Sub maintenance is like taking surface ship maintenance, adding a zero or two to the cost, and then exponentially increasing the time to do the work. It's like going from doing a home reno in a full room to trying and do the same work in a tight crawl space, with a much stricter QC and document requirement for the crawl space stuff. The oversight process is like air worthiness on steroids, and I say that with familiarity with both.

No room for error or skipping maintenance, which is fair given the outcomes, but we couldn't afford to do even a skeleton of that on surface ships.

Bit of a mental shift as a surface ship guy, but it's refreshing to not have to argue for basic safety systems to actually be fully operational, as it's just assumed. There are a few pieces of kit used on the subs and the CPFs, and weirdly their reliability is really high when they have a 95% PM completion rate, instead of high teens. Does cost a lot of time and money though, which we can only afford because we have a small number of subs.
 
At some point, the quantity of usable units (of whatever) has to have a minimum below which it is pointless having anything. Either the minimum is zero, or it isn't. If it isn't, then that amount is a hard floor. If we are struggling to meet commitments and maintain credibility, we're most likely below the hard floor and have to stop reducing.

If I am struggling to meet commitments then I need to reduce my commitments. I may even have to sell off and move and start again.
 
If I am struggling to meet commitments then I need to reduce my commitments. I may even have to sell off and move and start again.
Except, as a rich country that depends on international trade we can't skip out on commitments.

If we can't be bothered to do our part to ensure the "rules based international order" is defended, why should we be allowed to profit from it so greatly?

This is the messaging that politicians have failed to pass on to Canadians, because they don't want to be responsible. They prefer to have more play money for their re-election vote buying, rather than telling Canadian voters hard truths.
 
Except, as a rich country that depends on international trade we can't skip out on commitments.

If we can't be bothered to do our part to ensure the "rules based international order" is defended, why should we be allowed to profit from it so greatly?

This is the messaging that the GoC has failed to pass on to Canadians, and because they don't want to be responsible. They prefer to have more play money for their re-election vote buying, rather than telling Canadian voters hard truths.

Skipping out on commitments is one thing. Rolling them up in conformity with contractual agreements is another.
The end result in terms of relations with the market may be the same in both cases but in one case you have just become irrelevant. In the other case you have become irrelevant and have made enemies.
 
But it could just mean scaling down to what we can actually support, so for the Navy example I think we could chop down to 8 frigates now, which is still probably more than we can actually crew and do the maintenance/repairs on, but 12 is a pipe dream.
Yet here we are planning on 15 x CSCs to replace 12 x CPF, up to 12 x SSKs to replace 4 x Victorias, 2 x JSS coming, an eventual 6 x AOPS and 12 x MCDV's (and their eventual replacements).

Even if we fix our training and retention issues (and how's that going so far?), are there enough Canadians interested enough in going to sea (and under the sea) to fill all those positions?

There seems to be a major disconnect between the capabilities we need and the people we have to do the jobs. And based on the fact that the exact same recruiting and retention issues are being faced by virtually every other Western nation I have serious doubts that anything the CAF does on the personnel front is likely to substantially change the situation. The problem is cultural and demographic. Things like housing allowances, posting policies and operational tempo might shift the situation somewhat to the positive or negative but I don't think they will really change the overall trend.

That fact runs us directly into this reality:
At some point, the quantity of usable units (of whatever) has to have a minimum below which it is pointless having anything. Either the minimum is zero, or it isn't. If it isn't, then that amount is a hard floor. If we are struggling to meet commitments and maintain credibility, we're most likely below the hard floor and have to stop reducing.
I think at some point we have to come to the realization that a way has to be found to realistically match manning to capabilities and that is likely going to require much more radical changes to the way we think about how we meet our minimum capability requirements. Continuing down the same path is the sure route to failure.
 
The 12 SSK's is a pipe dream to me. Hard to take some of those numbers seriously when they are thrown out like taha. There are too many competing needs. As for the 15 CSC's, it wouldnt surprise me if they end up being 12. Its going to be close to 10 yrs before we see the first one so lots of time for things to change. The last batch will coul be the start of new ship/class and slow rolled out in a continuous build cycle as intended
 
The 12 SSK's is a pipe dream to me. Hard to take some of those numbers seriously when they are thrown out like taha. There are too many competing needs. As for the 15 CSC's, it wouldnt surprise me if they end up being 12. Its going to be close to 10 yrs before we see the first one so lots of time for things to change. The last batch will coul be the start of new ship/class and slow rolled out in a continuous build cycle as intended
The fact we won't see the last one till the 2040 is embarrassing , the halifax's will be held with duct tape by then
 
The fact we won't see the last one till the 2040 is embarrassing , the halifax's will be held with duct tape by then
I question that, as it really depends on how quick Irving can get up to speed. BAE slow rolled the 26 out in the UK and Irving should be able to benefit from their and Australias work plus coming off a hot run of AOPS. But even if it was a 6 yr build on the first and delivering a new one every year after

CSC 1 2024-2030
.....
CSC 12 2041

seems unlikely to progress that well both at the start and year over year
 
With Billy Blair at the helm you can count on him not reading his briefing papers. Therefore nothing will happen except more studies and papers which he won't read.

Lather, rinse, repeat until that pension kicks in....
 
The 12 SSK's is a pipe dream to me. Hard to take some of those numbers seriously when they are thrown out like taha. There are too many competing needs. As for the 15 CSC's, it wouldnt surprise me if they end up being 12. Its going to be close to 10 yrs before we see the first one so lots of time for things to change. The last batch will coul be the start of new ship/class and slow rolled out in a continuous build cycle as intended
what it sort of implies to me is a continuous build cycle. We won't ever hit 12 or 15 but there is the potential for a continuous supply rather than build and bust
 
Trudeau's not embarrassed.
No he is not, and that's the sad part....my grandkids are totally.....Fuc*** because of this country's total fail, to actually give a fuc* about the future including Defense, the US at some point will take Canada's resources, so China doesn't get it! Economy is in the toilet with all the Liberal projects, housing / inflation shitshow, this Current government does not give a shit whatsoever!! How many damn NATO countries have to say we are a freeloader!! We have the resources to unfuck this, but won't happen because Greta Says so!! My 2 cents!
 
No he is not, and that's the sad part....my grandkids are totally.....Fuc*** because of this country's total fail, to actually give a fuc* about the future including Defense, the US at some point will take Canada's resources, so China doesn't get it! Economy is in the toilet with all the Liberal projects, housing / inflation shitshow, this Current government does not give a shit whatsoever!! How many damn NATO countries have to say we are a freeloader!! We have the resources to unfuck this, but won't happen because Greta Says so!! My 2 cents!
Couldn't have said it better.
 
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