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Britain's Conservatives planning to bring back compulsory national service.
- Thread starter gryphonv
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There were a few different programs running in 1987. SYEP was still on the books, as was SSEP, and something called "Co-op University" (I don't know anything about that last one). YTEP was still around, and there was also a civilian employee program called CTEP.
Regarding SYEP Challenge, there was a government program called Challenge 86 that was funded by the Commission for Employment and Immigration Canada, who had a mandate to reduce youth unemployment. By the 1980s, most of these unique DND hiring programs relied entirely on CEIC funding, as they were paying about 75% of the total costs. Once CEIC went away, so did most of these programs.
quadrapiper
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Especially one that doesn't have a bunch of personnel-intensive standing commitments. The UK today doesn't have BAOR or the multitude of other major commitments it once maintained, nor does it have all the DOMOPS activity implicit in half a continent's worth of fires, floods, and other excitement.
I think Canada would have a better chance of figuring out a useful way to manage and employ conscripts than the UK as it currently exists.
Halifax Tar
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Service = Citizenship?
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Service = Citizenship?
daftandbarmy
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Service = Citizenship?
Voter participation in the democratic process has been declining for years, so that's hardly an incentive
Election turnout: Why do some people not vote?
The number of people voting in elections is an indicator of democratic health. In UK general elections, this number has declined since 1997. Why is this? What could be done to increase turnout?- Evidence suggests that voter numbers have declined globally since the 1960s.
- In the UK, some eligible voters are less likely to vote than others. This includes younger people, people with fewer qualifications, people with lower socio-economic backgrounds, people who were born overseas and people from ethnic minority groups.
- Eligible voters might not vote due to political disengagement and/or logistical or bureaucratic barriers such as incorrect registration on the electoral roll.
- Several policy initiatives may increase voter turnout, including compulsory voting, automatic voter registration, civic engagement and voting age reform.
Service = Citizenship?
In this case, Sunak's campaign plank is "Citizenship Guarantees Service."
gryphonv
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There has been a lot of good points and arguments brought up.
I think the biggest thing is what would constitute 'national' service? I don't think it necessarily has to be military occupations only, it could encompass many areas that are outside the traditional grounds of the military. Some military roles can be options for sure, but each role has to be considered separately, because a year or less in many trades is pretty much only a drain on resources.
A national forest fighting service is one thought, people could be trained up fairly quick to be valuble in that. Could also be used on the flip side to help replant forests cut down, or a quick response team for disasters during the winter, like when Toronto asked for help with their bad storms, Quebec Ice Storms, Snowmagedon in St. John's. It could help take the burden off the regular force and let them focus on the more traditional military roles. Maybe a National Guard system that is strictly non combat.
There are countless options, but my point is it don't have to be a 'soldier' first mentality. I think with this approach it would be more easy to swallow by those apposed to being involved in the military.
The issue with productivity is one I admit I haven't thought of, but I wonder with nations that recently removed mandatory service, like Germany, if they seen an appreciable increased in productivity after it was removed.
I think the biggest thing is what would constitute 'national' service? I don't think it necessarily has to be military occupations only, it could encompass many areas that are outside the traditional grounds of the military. Some military roles can be options for sure, but each role has to be considered separately, because a year or less in many trades is pretty much only a drain on resources.
A national forest fighting service is one thought, people could be trained up fairly quick to be valuble in that. Could also be used on the flip side to help replant forests cut down, or a quick response team for disasters during the winter, like when Toronto asked for help with their bad storms, Quebec Ice Storms, Snowmagedon in St. John's. It could help take the burden off the regular force and let them focus on the more traditional military roles. Maybe a National Guard system that is strictly non combat.
There are countless options, but my point is it don't have to be a 'soldier' first mentality. I think with this approach it would be more easy to swallow by those apposed to being involved in the military.
The issue with productivity is one I admit I haven't thought of, but I wonder with nations that recently removed mandatory service, like Germany, if they seen an appreciable increased in productivity after it was removed.
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A community service program for young Canadians? Never heard of it.
gryphonv
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Big difference with volunteer unpaid work vs compulsory paid work.
Not many can afford to volunteer 30+ hours a week with no income being received.
QV
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Not remotely on the scale of usefulness I think this topic is getting at.
Most compulsory service models make allowances for non-military employment of some kind, often in the medical system. The proposed British system would permit 18-year-olds to select some other form of community service based employment; I believe the National Health Service was mentioned as a possibility.
I don't know of any economic studies that have looked at the impact of removing mandatory service. But there are quite a few that have examined the overall cost of any given system of conscription. For example, here is one that considers Soviet manpower requirements and their overall impact on the USSR's economy: https://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R3659.readonline.html
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They have managed to put a whopping 37K though the programme since 1977... That's only 20K less than the number of cadets enrolled in the programme this year.
OUR IMPACT – Katimavik
What Cadets do - Canada.ca
Call me cynical, but I don’t believe for a second that the politicians would create some sort of mandatory national service, either military or civil, without some sort of dodge their own kids and those of their socioeconomic peers would be able to use to dodge it.
Devil's always in the details, and certainly this has been an issue with mandatory service in the past. One of the biggest complaints about the draft in the US was the ease by which some people could get deferments.
For what it's worth, Sunak claims that any exemptions will be "limited" and that the Royals will be expected to participate. Prince George, Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis ‘would not be exempt from National Service’
gryphonv
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That's not unique to this or any other thing most politicians pass.
rmc_wannabe
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To be fair, it is the historical path for most Royals to spend time in the Armed Forces after Uni.
This is done to not only to give an appearance of having a credible "real job" prior to working for the "Firm" full time, but also to solidify (at least for the line of succession) some air of legitimacy when taking over as Commander-in-Chief.
If the Wales children were to get called up, all the better. Her Late Majesty and the Duke of Edinburgh did their bit when they were in their youth, same with most of their children and grand children to varying degrees.
In Canada, should the Bugle sound and we send our children to the fray; I would imagine Xavier Trudeau would be shuffled into some oversight position at faceless armaments factory. One that is "critical to the war effort".
Agreed, the Royals generally set a decent example with regards to military service.
I don't doubt that if we had national service, there would be plenty of questionable exemptions.
Brad Sallows
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Right now there are probably about 400,000 people turning 18 each year. I doubt enough positions can be found for all of them, and some would be "excused duty" for reasons not necessarily related to severe disability. So some people would get a pass, and some would be f*cked. It wouldn't matter how the latter were chosen; the imposition on them would be deeply illiberal.
Look, I like to pile "f*ck yous" on the upcoming generations as much as the next guy so that they don't get lazy and complacent and fat standing on the shoulders of the Greatest, Silent, and Boomer generations, but we need them to be as productively employed as possible to ensure the federal government can keep me in the style to which I am accustomed as I age.
Look, I like to pile "f*ck yous" on the upcoming generations as much as the next guy so that they don't get lazy and complacent and fat standing on the shoulders of the Greatest, Silent, and Boomer generations, but we need them to be as productively employed as possible to ensure the federal government can keep me in the style to which I am accustomed as I age.
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This.
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