Armoured RECCE

[daftandbarmy]

Could you expand on this , the use of armour during that time and period is an interest of mine.

All I've got is first person type stories.

They've convinced me I'd never want to be dismounted Infantry facing armoured squadrons at night, well beyond any fully developed defensive positions

 

[markppcli]

Point taken - The weight perhaps, but given the standoff/soft launch/fire&forget characteristics of a javelin for example, maybe its not far off to what could be. A perfect simulation it is not, but I don't think its extremely far off. Asking someone to do this in real life with a Carl G would not be fun nor very survivable but I think still doable. That is part of the reason why I spent so much time in the article discussing the well known fact among the Army / CANSOFCOM that we need something better than the CG.

Weight, bull, signature all play a part in this. What is a realistic carry load for a Javelin team? 2-3 roundsmaybe? 4 at a push? It’s hard to relate that to MR with some guys in an ATV firing as they feel like and not having to pack anything up. Anyways that’s just left over grumbling from running a TOW det in Latvia and being told we can just make space for the rounds.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Weight, bull, signature all play a part in this. What is a realistic carry load for a Javelin team? 2-3 roundsmaybe? 4 at a push? It’s hard to relate that to MR with some guys in an ATV firing as they feel like and not having to pack anything up. Anyways that’s just left over grumbling from running a TOW det in Latvia and being told we can just make space for the rounds.

Say 'ahhhhhhhh'

 

[markppcli]

Say 'ahhhhhhhh'

View attachment 72326

Hey man I’d be all for billing those out of war stores until we get a proper replacement.

 

[GR66]

A couple of random thoughts/questions.

• Agreed that it's highly unlikely that we'll procure enough tanks to have both a Tank Regiment plus have tanks in our Armoured Recce/Cavalry Regiments like the US ABCT Cavalry Squadrons.
  • Would having vehicle mounted ATGMs be sufficient anti-armour capability (along with an autocannon of some sort for lighter vehicles) or is there a clear need for a higher calibre DFS weapon (105mm or 120mm) in the vehicle mix as well?
• Are the modern sensor systems that are available to peer competitors good enough at detecting vehicles (especially moving vehicles) now that the signature difference between something like a LAV or TAPV compared to something smaller like a Scimitar or VAB really makes no practical difference?
  • Are we overly obsessed with the size of the LAV and TAPV in the Recce role simply because WE don't have the latest sensor capabilities that can pick out a smaller vehicle just as easily as a larger one? (not suggesting that size is the only concern with these vehicles. Offroad handling and speed, stability, capacity and weapons, etc. are obviously also factors)
  • How small does a vehicle have to be now in order to be "stealthy" to modern sensors? Is it possible to have a stealthy armoured vehicle or is there a re-emerging role for mud recce type vehicles? Or do we need to go unmanned (or dismounted) in order to remain undetected?
• With the increasing prevalence of airborne sensor systems being used for recce I'm thinking it make sense to equip our recce vehicles with dual-purpose weapons that can be used against both air and ground targets.
  • 30mm Cannon with airburst ammo for use against both UAVs and dismounts (with HEDP for use against light vehicles and the ATGM for use against heavier armour)
  • Launcher for something like the Coyote UAS. Can be mounted on the same Moog RiWP weapon station as used on the M-SHORAD Stryker. Can be used in the ISR role (faster than a quad-copter so could be used during mounted ops), in the Counter-UAS role (for counter recce), or as a direct attack weapon when required.

 

[GR66]

It could be interesting if the US Army's Electric Light Reconnaissance Vehicle (eLRV) program gets off the ground.

A fully electric or hybrid recce vehicle intended for the US Army's IBCT Cavalry Squadrons, the vehicle is spec'd as:

“Through nontraditional powertrain electrification, the eLRV would provide enhanced mobility, automotive performance, on-demand silent operation, lethality, protection, mission load capacity, and onboard power for a six-Soldier Scout Squad with their associated equipment to conduct combinations of mounted and dismounted Reconnaissance and Surveillance (R&S) missions for the IBCT for extended durations without the need for resupply,”

GDLS is proposing its Advanced Ground Mobility Vehicle (AGMV) which could provide an option for Canadian production. The article says that GM Defence was looking at an electrified version of their Infantry Squad Vehicle which could provide some commonality of supply if we procured the ISV for our Light Battalions (and open the possibility as well for Canadian production), but I believe I read in more recent articles that GM with AM General might be proposing an electrified Hummer now instead.

 

[OldSolduer]

Hey man I’d be all for billing those out of war stores until we get a proper replacement.

They are relatively simple to drive and maintain. They would not be a terrible choice. A much lower silhouette than a LAV and decent x country capability. I am not sure about the spare parts situation as they can burn through transfer cases and transmissions.

 

[Kirkhill]

They're heeeere!

Approved 2014.

30.08.2023

Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicles On the Move​

Image: General Dynamics Land Systems
Beginning August 30, 2023, five Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicles will be transported by semi-trailer flatbed from London, ON to Valcartier, QC. Members of the public may notice these vehicles on major Canadian highways. These activities are in direct support of the Light Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance Surveillance System project that will provide the Canadian Army with its first vehicle-based, on-the-move, long-range reconnaissance capability.
The Light Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance Surveillance System project is replacing 141 aging Coyote surveillance vehicles with 66 state-of-the-art surveillance systems, which will be fully integrated onto the Light Armoured Vehicle (LAV) 6.0 platform. The first five vehicles will be received in Valcartier, QC and will undergo testing until winter 2024.
Over the next 18 months, the remaining vehicles will be delivered in a similar manner to Canadian Forces Bases in Gagetown, NB, Petawawa, ON, Valcartier, QC, and Montréal, QC.

Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicles On the Move

new_item_en

www.canadiandefencereview.com

Light Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance Surveillance System (LRSS) - Canada.ca

The Light Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance Surveillance System (LRSS) project will replace 141 of the Coyote fleet with 66 state-of-the-art surveillance systems, integrated into 66 light armoured vehicles (LAV) 6.0 chassis.

www.canada.ca

 

[IKnowNothing]

They're heeeere!

Approved 2014.

30.08.2023

Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicles On the Move​

Image: General Dynamics Land Systems
Beginning August 30, 2023, five Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicles will be transported by semi-trailer flatbed from London, ON to Valcartier, QC. Members of the public may notice these vehicles on major Canadian highways. These activities are in direct support of the Light Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance Surveillance System project that will provide the Canadian Army with its first vehicle-based, on-the-move, long-range reconnaissance capability.
The Light Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance Surveillance System project is replacing 141 aging Coyote surveillance vehicles with 66 state-of-the-art surveillance systems, which will be fully integrated onto the Light Armoured Vehicle (LAV) 6.0 platform. The first five vehicles will be received in Valcartier, QC and will undergo testing until winter 2024.
Over the next 18 months, the remaining vehicles will be delivered in a similar manner to Canadian Forces Bases in Gagetown, NB, Petawawa, ON, Valcartier, QC, and Montréal, QC.

Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicles On the Move

new_item_en

www.canadiandefencereview.com

Light Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance Surveillance System (LRSS) - Canada.ca

The Light Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance Surveillance System (LRSS) project will replace 141 of the Coyote fleet with 66 state-of-the-art surveillance systems, integrated into 66 light armoured vehicles (LAV) 6.0 chassis.

www.canada.ca

Booooo. Bad image selection. The pictured vehicle is of the GDLS entrant for USMC Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle, with pesky upgrades like a 30mm cannon and intregral ATGM

 

[GK .Dundas]

Is it just me or does it seem that every time we replace a family of vehicles the number just keeps getting smaller ?
In the 90s we replaced 250 Lynx with 141 Coyote and now we we're receiving a grand total of 66 of whatever unpronounceable acronym that we will use for recce.
By the way have we ever come up with a name yet for TAPV or least one that you can utter in front of children ?

 

[KevinB]

Booooo. Bad image selection. The pictured vehicle is of the GDLS entrant for USMC Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle, with pesky upgrades like a 30mm cannon and intregral ATGM

Well TBH it’s probably what Canada should have got

 

[IKnowNothing]

Well TBH it’s probably what Canada should have got

Hence the booing- the picture gave momentary hope.

 

[KevinB]

Is it just me or does it seem that every time we replace a family of vehicles the number just keeps getting smaller ?
In the 90s we replaced 250 Lynx with 141 Coyote and now we we're receiving a grand total of 66 of whatever unpronounceable acronym that we will use for recce.
By the way have we ever come up with a name yet for TAPV or least one that you can utter in front of children ?

But hey it’s important to have 9 Inf Bn’s and 3 ‘Armoured’ Reg’ts.

 

[FJAG]

Is it just me or does it seem that every time we replace a family of vehicles the number just keeps getting smaller ?
In the 90s we replaced 250 Lynx with 141 Coyote and now we we're receiving a grand total of 66 of whatever unpronounceable acronym that we will use for recce.

It's not just you. That's what happens when you buy capabilities limited by a budget without an overarching doctrinal establishment/force structure to set the required numbers.

By the way have we ever come up with a name yet for TAPV or least one that you can utter in front of children ?

Funny now that you mention it. The LAV3 was the Kodiak but that never caught on in a big way and most folks defaulted to "LAV" or "car". Maybe after that they just never thought it worthwhile to give the TAPV a nickname. I've never seen one for it.

Anyone?

 

[IKnowNothing]

It's not just you. That's what happens when you buy capabilities limited by a budget without an overarching doctrinal establishment/force structure to set the required numbers.

Funny now that you mention it. The LAV3 was the Kodiak but that never caught on in a big way and most folks defaulted to "LAV" or "car". Maybe after that they just never thought it worthwhile to give the TAPV a nickname. I've never seen one for it.

Anyone?

 

[daftandbarmy]

But hey it’s important to have 9 Inf Bn’s and 3 ‘Armoured’ Reg’ts.

And Umpteen Recce Sqns, apparently.

Just in case we stand this up again, I guess

 

[Retired AF Guy]

They're heeeere!

Approved 2014.

30.08.2023

Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicles On the Move​

Image: General Dynamics Land Systems
Beginning August 30, 2023, five Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicles will be transported by semi-trailer flatbed from London, ON to Valcartier, QC. Members of the public may notice these vehicles on major Canadian highways. These activities are in direct support of the Light Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance Surveillance System project that will provide the Canadian Army with its first vehicle-based, on-the-move, long-range reconnaissance capability.
The Light Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance Surveillance System project is replacing 141 aging Coyote surveillance vehicles with 66 state-of-the-art surveillance systems, which will be fully integrated onto the Light Armoured Vehicle (LAV) 6.0 platform. The first five vehicles will be received in Valcartier, QC and will undergo testing until winter 2024.
Over the next 18 months, the remaining vehicles will be delivered in a similar manner to Canadian Forces Bases in Gagetown, NB, Petawawa, ON, Valcartier, QC, and Montréal, QC.

Light Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicles On the Move

new_item_en

www.canadiandefencereview.com

Light Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance Surveillance System (LRSS) - Canada.ca

The Light Armoured Vehicle Reconnaissance Surveillance System (LRSS) project will replace 141 of the Coyote fleet with 66 state-of-the-art surveillance systems, integrated into 66 light armoured vehicles (LAV) 6.0 chassis.

www.canada.ca

"[w]ill be delivered in a similar manner to Canadian Forces Bases in Gagetown, NB, Petawawa, ON, Valcartier, QC, and Montréal, QC.'

No deliveries for units in western Canada?

 

[dapaterson]

"[w]ill be delivered in a similar manner to Canadian Forces Bases in Gagetown, NB, Petawawa, ON, Valcartier, QC, and Montréal, QC.'

No deliveries for units in western Canada?

If I understand, it's going to the school, 12 RBC and RCD; the Strathconas are somewhat preoccupied with tanks.

 

[Kirkhill]

"[w]ill be delivered in a similar manner to Canadian Forces Bases in Gagetown, NB, Petawawa, ON, Valcartier, QC, and Montréal, QC.'

No deliveries for units in western Canada?

The Strats will just have to rely on 12 RBC and the RCDs to tell them where to go and how to get there.

 

[PrairieFella]

Time for a little thread necromancy.

Question for any old timer blackhatters, what was the rationale for the Coyotes to be immediately raked in by the Regs when they were also supposed to go to the Reserves as well? From what I've read and heard, a very limited number of Coyotes did make it to some armoury floors but we're immediately taken away,why did this happen?