Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[Underway]

I’m also beginning to think @Underway is CRCN

No, I'm certainly not the CRCN. But I may just be a Kraken.

 

[Underway]

and hopefully working jetty cranes, jetty refurbishment overall and a bigger dock.

West coat jetty replacement is in phase 2. And I think they are almost done the environmental for the ammo jetty replacement. Jetty cranes are coming for B jetty west coast as well, now that its open and approved.

East coast no idea, but frankly west coast needs it more (if you had to pick a priority). A jetty is still basically a wooden pier (now closed for demolition before the new fancy concrete A jetty goes in).

CRCN can start whatever he likes; he has no authority to actually deliver a ship, just a list of wants.

@Stoker Yeah, lots of infra things for sure.

Bang for buckwise, DRDC is also criminally underused, and difficult to get funding to do actual research and testing on known problems, with experts we already employ to do exactly that sort of thing. They do have a lot of internal funding they can use, but still lots of cases where they need some portions of it done.

Lots of things we are running on SOPs that are best guesses or assumptions that we could easily actually test (and improve SOPs and responses) for a fraction of the amount of money being spent on option analysis and travel that vanity projects like these burn through. There are some pretty fundamental things we know needs replaced that has exactly zero dedicated resources looking at it, as the LCMMs are running flat out just trying to keep the existing old kit running along.

Off the top of my head can think of a few projects that stalled due to lack of people that are on the PRO and CHI BOIs but still not implemented, as well as some other things where we should have started replacing RCN wide kit 5 years ago.

Agreed. I do enjoy a good ship design discussion, creative juices and all but like you say reality is that we need infrastructure, engineering, maintenance, training investment more. Fill the holes, starting now, and the new planned ships will be along in their own time.

 

[Navy_Pete]

West coat jetty replacement is in phase 2. And I think they are almost done the environmental for the ammo jetty replacement. Jetty cranes are coming for B jetty west coast as well, now that its open and approved.

East coast no idea, but frankly west coast needs it more (if you had to pick a priority). A jetty is still basically a wooden pier (now closed for demolition before the new fancy concrete A jetty goes in).


Agreed. I do enjoy a good ship design discussion, creative juices and all but like you say reality is that we need infrastructure, engineering, maintenance, training investment more. Fill the holes, starting now, and the new planned ships will be along in their own time.

From what I understand, NB is finally getting repaired, but most of the jetty infra needs repairs and updates to the basic service runs as well, and the East coast will need more jetty space as well. I think we're probably running near the practical limit of what you can fit in CFB Halifax though, so a lot of people won't be too happy to be over in Shearwater or Dartmouth, especially with any repairs needed.

Aside from the Dockyards, at least they finally are replacing the shacks which was long overdue, but outside of Venture for the jr. officers the trade schools are all in desparate need of replacements. Our DC schools are probably old enouhg that we need to start looking at major repairs for both of those, but it's hard to even get 2 week repair windows.

PMQs is another one I guess.

 

[quadrapiper]

From what I understand, NB is finally getting repaired, but most of the jetty infra needs repairs and updates to the basic service runs as well, and the East coast will need more jetty space as well. I think we're probably running near the practical limit of what you can fit in CFB Halifax though, so a lot of people won't be too happy to be over in Shearwater or Dartmouth, especially with any repairs needed.

Aside from the Dockyards, at least they finally are replacing the shacks which was long overdue, but outside of Venture for the jr. officers the trade schools are all in desparate need of replacements. Our DC schools are probably old enouhg that we need to start looking at major repairs for both of those, but it's hard to even get 2 week repair windows.

PMQs is another one I guess.

Are the DC schools something that would benefit from doubled capacity anyways? Would it make sense to just build two new facilities adjacent to the current ones then give the current ones a real overhaul?

 

[Navy_Pete]

Are the DC schools something that would benefit from doubled capacity anyways? Would it make sense to just build two new facilities adjacent to the current ones then give the current ones a real overhaul?

Maybe, but the west coast one is in a sensitive enviro area and clearing out trees to expand would be a bit of a nightmare, and generally doing even minor construction in both spots is logistically challenging for different reasons. There are a number of unfilled positions at both schools anyway, so making more training areas without expanding trainers and maintenance staff is a waste of time.

Live fire trainers are supposed to finally go in next year (however many years after the PRO BOI) but running into issues with location and running infra to it. Also so far no one seems to have started establishment changes to create new positions to support that.

Over the years they went from isolated locations to having large houes built up around them so expect will get complaints from the new neighbours, but we really need to actually train people on real fires after doing propane based learning.

No big deal though, we'll also have to give everyone in the RCN refresher training to convert from AFFF to F3 (flourine free foam), which really should be done on class B fires, but even just laying down foam blankets and watching it break down would be a start.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Maybe, but the west coast one is in a sensitive enviro area and clearing out trees to expand would be a bit of a nightmare, and generally doing even minor construction in both spots is logistically challenging for different reasons. There are a number of unfilled positions at both schools anyway, so making more training areas without expanding trainers and maintenance staff is a waste of time.

Live fire trainers are supposed to finally go in next year (however many years after the PRO BOI) but running into issues with location and running infra to it. Also so far no one seems to have started establishment changes to create new positions to support that.

Over the years they went from isolated locations to having large houes built up around them so expect will get complaints from the new neighbours, but we really need to actually train people on real fires after doing propane based learning.

No big deal though, we'll also have to give everyone in the RCN refresher training to convert from AFFF to F3 (flourine free foam), which really should be done on class B fires, but even just laying down foam blankets and watching it break down would be a start.

We just got dumped on by 6th Fd Sqdn because we had the fire department over and since we have a whole whack of dry chem fire extinguishers, we each kid attack the fire, but lot of the dust drifted over into their compound. Apparently they see it as bad stuff nowadays.

 

[Underway]

Maybe, but the west coast one is in a sensitive enviro area and clearing out trees to expand would be a bit of a nightmare, and generally doing even minor construction in both spots is logistically challenging for different reasons. There are a number of unfilled positions at both schools anyway, so making more training areas without expanding trainers and maintenance staff is a waste of time.

Live fire trainers are supposed to finally go in next year (however many years after the PRO BOI) but running into issues with location and running infra to it. Also so far no one seems to have started establishment changes to create new positions to support that.

I learned my first FF/DC drills in Torch on the West Coast. Did my OOD training in Tumult. Diesel fires. With B-gear and those damn CHEMOX. Learned the hard way that you attack the fire as fast as possible, before it gets really hot. Also carbon fires are brutal as sometimes the walls caught fire, and then you had to stand there with the hose on narrow and power wash the thing off while it was burning. Just some extra time on the hose so I didn't complain.

I was also helper for when they installed/trialed the propane on the west coast, working with the 651 guys, cleaning up after them, rolling hoses and occationally getting a run in for extra training and fun after they were satisified or sick of doing it themselves.

 

[Stoker]

From what I understand, NB is finally getting repaired, but most of the jetty infra needs repairs and updates to the basic service runs as well, and the East coast will need more jetty space as well. I think we're probably running near the practical limit of what you can fit in CFB Halifax though, so a lot of people won't be too happy to be over in Shearwater or Dartmouth, especially with any repairs needed.

Aside from the Dockyards, at least they finally are replacing the shacks which was long overdue, but outside of Venture for the jr. officers the trade schools are all in desparate need of replacements. Our DC schools are probably old enouhg that we need to start looking at major repairs for both of those, but it's hard to even get 2 week repair windows.

PMQs is another one I guess.

In Halifax we still need a gym, boat shed, new health center, refurbishment of some of the old buildings at Stad and that's just off the top of my head. Probably a new or expanded DC div.

RCD larger than the Halifax Class, so they probably need more room. Room for submarines most likely, JSS and Kingston Class replacements. Right now their struggling to find space for the mothballed Kingston Class. Then there's room for foreign naval visits. Once the RCD"s start to be delivered we would need a new synchrolift to dock these ships. Lots of considerations but thankfully not all at once.

 

[Cloud Cover]

In Halifax we still need a gym, boat shed, new health center, refurbishment of some of the old buildings at Stad and that's just off the top of my head. Probably a new or expanded DC div.

RCD larger than the Halifax Class, so they probably need more room. Room for submarines most likely, JSS and Kingston Class replacements. Right now their struggling to find space for the mothballed Kingston Class. Then there's room for foreign naval visits. Once the RCD"s start to be delivered we would need a new synchrolift to dock these ships. Lots of considerations but thankfully not all at once.

Its insane how much they have let all of this go, almost as if there have been successive governments that did not want to fund the military...

 

[DBNSG]

Its insane how much they have let all of this go, almost as if there have been successive governments that did not want to fund the military...

Most of it started by "we don need dat"

 

[dapaterson]

Or self inflicted wounds by growing program without seeking incremental funds and program cover from the government, so funded programs take the hit to fund GOBIs.

 

[Cloud Cover]

GOBI?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Aside from the Dockyards, at least they finally are replacing the shacks which was long overdue, but outside of Venture for the jr. officers the trade schools are all in desparate need of replacements. Our DC schools are probably old enouhg that we need to start looking at major repairs for both of those, but it's hard to even get 2 week repair windows.

I've long been advocating for the fleet school to be relocated in a single, nice, modern (I would almost say luminous) large scale campus - Community college style - built at Albert Head (I know, MTOG may not like it), complete with residences for the students that do not live locally, and some form of free transit to downtown Vic on the week ends and evenings.

I always felt that the level of modernity of the schools are a good indicator to young sailors that "they have made the right choice in joining", and of course the opposite is also true: old, decrepit school mean "what did I get myself into".

 

[dapaterson]

GOBI?

General Officer Bright Idea

 

[Halifax Tar]

Or self inflicted wounds by growing program without seeking incremental funds and program cover from the government, so funded programs take the hit to fund GOBIs.

Jetty's and infrastructure aren't sexy.

 

[Czech_pivo]

From what I understand, NB is finally getting repaired, but most of the jetty infra needs repairs and updates to the basic service runs as well, and the East coast will need more jetty space as well. I think we're probably running near the practical limit of what you can fit in CFB Halifax though, so a lot of people won't be too happy to be over in Shearwater or Dartmouth, especially with any repairs needed.

Aside from the Dockyards, at least they finally are replacing the shacks which was long overdue, but outside of Venture for the jr. officers the trade schools are all in desparate need of replacements. Our DC schools are probably old enouhg that we need to start looking at major repairs for both of those, but it's hard to even get 2 week repair windows.

PMQs is another one I guess.

Is there space south of NB to build a new pier if the existing short, wooden pier is completely removed?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Is there space south of NB to build a new pier if the existing short, wooden pier is completely removed?

I don't think so. You could build one off of Scotian, but the space between NB and it would be almost unusable.

I think we could revitalize the annex and use FDU's jetty more often, or build another jetty there.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I don't think so. You could build one off of Scotian, but the space between NB and it would be almost unusable.

I think we could revitalize the annex and use FDU's jetty more often, or build another jetty there.

Will be interesting to see where they put all these ships if we do get 12 subs and 12 corvettes, along with maybe another JSS and a Sub Rescue ship and the 15 RCD's. If 50% of those ships are stationed at Halifax, that's another 5-6 net new ships at a min, in addition to the extra length of each of those ships, plus the new AOPS added to the mix.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I learned my first FF/DC drills in Torch on the West Coast. Did my OOD training in Tumult. Diesel fires. With B-gear and those damn CHEMOX. Learned the hard way that you attack the fire as fast as possible, before it gets really hot. Also carbon fires are brutal as sometimes the walls caught fire, and then you had to stand there with the hose on narrow and power wash the thing off while it was burning. Just some extra time on the hose so I didn't complain.

I was also helper for when they installed/trialed the propane on the west coast, working with the 651 guys, cleaning up after them, rolling hoses and occationally getting a run in for extra training and fun after they were satisified or sick of doing it themselves.

That is about as scared as I have ever been in the CAF: doing down hatch drills as the nozzleman in Chemox/B gear against a live diesel fire in Tumult. The ladder was greasy as hell and if you slipped, you were dead. Then at the bottom, I was completely surrounded by fire, including it flashing overhead on the deckhead. Terrifying.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I've long been advocating for the fleet school to be relocated in a single, nice, modern (I would almost say luminous) large scale campus - Community college style - built at Albert Head (I know, MTOG may not like it), complete with residences for the students that do not live locally, and some form of free transit to downtown Vic on the week ends and evenings.

I always felt that the level of modernity of the schools are a good indicator to young sailors that "they have made the right choice in joining", and of course the opposite is also true: old, decrepit school mean "what did I get myself into".

No. We are critically short of training area, as it is. Leave Albert Head alone.