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All Things First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

lenaitch said:
If they truly want to be self-governing, then a complete and distinct organization should be the the long-term goal. In Ontario, there are 12 FN police services; some individual community service and some deployed or treaty based. There is a small number of FNTs that opted to continue to be policed by the OPP. All still use provincial resources such as the Ontario Police College, Ontario Coroner and Pathology Services and the Centre of Forensic Sciences and all are operationally supported by the OPP as required.

Having said that, I see no operational benefit for some kind of pan-Canadian FN police service. They are not a single block of peoples.
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I deeply understand they are not a single block of people, but a pan-Canadian indigenous force that come in and reinforce the local force and perhaps deal with issues like corruption in the band council would help a lot.
 
Booter said:
like any small police service they will require an MOU for specialized services. Which can be the RCMP or anyone else.

Part of the issue for FN is the institutional baggage of the RCMP. They need to be broken off from it and control their policing. And deal with the issues they encounter with their own services
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I get that, but I am thinking baby steps, the RCMP is the only Federal police force with facilities, experience and HR structure to get such a force moving quickly. It's going to be small at first as you recruit, train and need some form of administration. later on they can be free standing.
 
Colin Parkinson said:
I deeply understand they are not a single block of people, but a pan-Canadian indigenous force that come in and reinforce the local force and perhaps deal with issues like corruption in the band council would help a lot.
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Understand the concern on the corruption side...but maybe that's not so much policing as strong rules and enforcement through INAC or CRA?

The bigger issue I see is a First Nation police member going into communities and someone assuming that First Nation is equal everywhere. Put a Blackfoot officer into a Cree community in Alberta....not good. Or a Cree into a Dene Thai...despite them being inter-married a fair amount...but they are not the same.

I often think of First Nation cultural clashes in the context of the Middle East. Family vs. Family...but an outsider picking on a Family will cause the Tribal group to rise up...and if a common foe the entire region. Add in all the different family groups within a First Nation Community, vs. Community vs. Community battles vs. Tribal context vs. Indigenous heritage against outsiders....can be an interesting coffee discussion with groups as you have experienced I'm sure.

That being said there are groups....slowly for sure but progressing...that are leveraging what opportunities they can find to create a better state of affairs. Many have preferential hiring for other Indigenous backgrounds (after their own community capacity is tapped out) which in turn is creating additional ripple effects from other community members learning and providing feedback. And then pride gets involved..."if those no-good so and so's down the road are doing this why aren't we? We're better than those guys...." which in turn creates some additional momentum.

The path for each community will be different...whether it's opportunities available, local capacity/knowledge, cultural assimilation fears, or finding the right leadership at the right time. But I would say things are on a much better trajectory than even 10-20 years ago when the term "impossible" was thrown around commonly...and now it's "when we can..."
 
I have seen the same shift as well, but I still feel a National Indigenous force is going to be needed, the issues of tribes that you just mentioned are real, but you work with what you have. When you have a FN community in a crisis and 5 Indigenous officers arrive the bolster the existing services, who can say; "Spare me the woe is me story, been there and done that as well", I think you see that demand for that service will soon outstrip the personal available.
 
I can see the arguments, but there would be a lot of push back from the FN services and provinces that have spent a lot of blood and treasure establishing what exists now. It certainly isn't perfect; stable staffing and funding are still issues.

Another advantage of the current situation is it works within existing legislation and only needs MOUs to operate. Establishing a federal FN police service would no doubt require federal legislation because the administration of justice is a provincial responsibility. Carving out federal enclaves within the provinces would be akin to going back to the days when the RCMP handled FNTs in Ontario and Quebec.

The issue of band council corruption is little different than municipal corruption. If a complaint is raised, the local FN PS/detachment would likely defer to an adjacent one.

In the remote Ontario FNs I operated on, the 'family mafia' effect was strong. Most only had a handful of families. I don't see flying in a Mohawk team from Tyendinaga to conduct an investigation on a northern Cree territory as going all that well.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1935687342318076122

Dougie just keeps hitting dingers

Major League Baseball Sport GIF by MLB
 
A quick and easy work-around ....
www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

Federal power to sidestep Indian Act removed from major projects bill

OTTAWA - The federal government's major projects legislation was amended by opposition parties on Wednesday to withdraw the power the bill gave cabinet to sidestep the Indian Act, following weeks
www.thecanadianpressnews.ca www.thecanadianpressnews.ca
... which may not do much in practice because from what little I know, the Act covers things that must/can be done or not done on reserve land, and I can't forsee too, too many pipeline projects or mines being within reserve properties. I also vaguely remember some reserve lands are designated for oil development, and that there's a specific bit of Indian Affairs/INAC/ISC that manages wells.
 
The Bread Guy said:
A quick and easy work-around ....
www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

Federal power to sidestep Indian Act removed from major projects bill

OTTAWA - The federal government's major projects legislation was amended by opposition parties on Wednesday to withdraw the power the bill gave cabinet to sidestep the Indian Act, following weeks
www.thecanadianpressnews.ca www.thecanadianpressnews.ca
... which may not do much in practice because from what little I know, the Act covers things that must/can be done or not done on reserve land, and I can't forsee too, too many pipeline projects or mines being within reserve properties. I also vaguely remember some reserve lands are designated for oil development, and that there's a specific bit of Indian Affairs/INAC/ISC that manages wells.
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that's better
 
YZT580 said:
sorry, quote "I can't foresee too many pipeline projects" end quote
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Ah, seen - thanks for that. And since it only takes one or two communities with feisty lawyers to block the sausage machine, barring any major wide-spread change of heart, I'd guess the same.
 
Serious question. Does "having meaningful consultation" mean stuff like safety concerns over the environment (e.g what's the safety protocols in place to avoid oil spills and who cleans it?) or does it mean how much money do we get.
 
Funny enough, if the government tries to engage in "meaningful consultation", the band must also engage and attempt to engage in a meaningful way. Some bands do actual try to make a meaningful impact during a review, others are just their for the money. They will put up roadblock, till a revenue sharing agreement is done and then magically their concerns disappear.
 
Jarnhamar said:
Serious question. Does "having meaningful consultation" mean stuff like safety concerns over the environment (e.g what's the safety protocols in place to avoid oil spills and who cleans it?) or does it mean how much money do we get.
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Depends on how cynical you are :)

In all seriousness, in a grossly oversimplified nutshell, "meaningful consultation" is supposed to mean finding out what the project would mean to communities in the area affected, how to make changes to the project that would meet any concerns of those affected (typically, but not just, effects on hunting, fishing, water quality, usual land use, etc.), and if changes can't be made to mitigate, what could be done for the communities to compensate/accommodate them for the loss of whatever use they might lose.

That last bit - "what can be done to make up for you not being able to do x anymore, no matter how we change the project?" - can lead to a range of interpretations re: remedies, depending on your world view. One person's compensation for losing something that's hugely important to a community is another person's bribe to let the proponents get 'er done.
 
Canada might as well save on lawyer fees and just throw 20 million dollars at every band involved anytime something needs to be done.
 
Jarnhamar said:
Canada might as well save on lawyer fees and just throw 20 million dollars at every band involved anytime something needs to be done.
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There are those out there saying you can spend money, energy and time before you start so it’s all sorted, or you can spend money, energy and time in the courts (and breaking up protests?) once the process begins.

And even with your solution, again, all it takes is one to say “not enough” :(
 
The Bread Guy said:
Depends on how cynical you are :)

In all seriousness, in a grossly oversimplified nutshell, "meaningful consultation" is supposed to mean finding out what the project would mean to communities in the area affected, how to make changes to the project that would meet any concerns of those affected (typically, but not just, effects on hunting, fishing, water quality, usual land use, etc.), and if changes can't be made to mitigate, what could be done for the communities to compensate/accommodate them for the loss of whatever use they might lose.

That last bit - "what can be done to make up for you not being able to do x anymore, no matter how we change the project?" - can lead to a range of interpretations re: remedies, depending on your world view. One person's compensation for losing something that's hugely important to a community is another person's bribe to let the proponents get 'er done.
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One of the groups being consulted has a total population of less than 3000 yet they are the make or break barrier to much of the territory mining development and transportation network. I don't recall the same consideration being given to the people of Pickering or around Mirabel and there are a lot more of them. A wise man wrote that there are some people who are just more equal than others
 
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