Loadsa "independents" on the Ballot Discussion (split from PP by-election)

[rmc_wannabe]

This is pissing people off on ll sides of the political spectrum. And the head of Elections Canada did have words to say about it.

Then, as I said, Elector Reform needs to be a bigger issue from the Opposition than it has been in the past. Then again, everything is great when you're on the benefiting side of things. JT showed that to be true, and I am certain if PP wins this by-election his outrage will be nothing more than a whimper until the next writ is dropped.

The people who think this is an ok form of protest probably think our criminal justice and bail is fine,

I think our bail and justice system is a farce and needs to be reformed to protect Canadian society

our immigration is hunky dorry,

Its routinely exploited and has more holes in it than Swiss cheese. I fully disagreed with the previous guy's policy and commend the new guy's approach thusfar at stemming the tide.

our economy is doing just marvelous

Our economy is dogshit and I pin that entirely on the Eco-Terrorist turned Minister and a lack of forward thinking from our previous establishment.

Blue or Red, whomever replaced them inherited a nightmare. We are going to feel the pain of this for decades.

and other stupid wish washy mind sets. Face the real world before it hits you in the face full force.

The real world has hit me in the face many times. I have also known that the only way the "real world" is changed, is by people having the balls to challenge the status quo.

We bemoan the previous decade of JT governance; good. It was awful and one of the key things he campaigned on in 2015 was electoral reform. He reneged on that promise and then benefitted from FPTP in two additional elections that enabled his continued effort to crash the bus into the quarry.

There will be no change until the juice is no longer worth the squeeze. If that means protesting FPTP with a legal, if not annoying, manner; so be it. The CBC articles and discussions being had because of this effort might bring enough attention to this issue that it becomes something debated in Parliament. Or put on a party's platform. Or open up the Canada Election Act to further changes that improve our democratic processes.

Democracy, done right is neither comfortable, nor tidy; and is far from orderly.

 

[brihard]

I agree the long ballot thing is stupid but it's within the rules.

If you want the rules changed engage your MP. Make it known this is an issue for you.

It poses a challenge for sure. It’s annoying and dumb, but so far has been utterly lawful, and there’s an argument to be made for freedom of expression in this form of protest.

While I would like to see a way to curb this, I’m also very, very wary of any proposed measures that would have the effect of making it harder for Canadians to exercise their democratic right to run as a legitimate candidate.

Limiting individuals to signing a single nomination is probably a defensible restriction that would have some positive impact… But I don’t imagine it’s a silver bullet on the issue. Organizing using the internet to get a mass signature campaign for nomination forms would likely not be a major challenge. A lot of people want electoral reform and would fundamentally agree with the objectives of this protest.

Anything that makes it harder to register as a candidate will disproportionately impact true independent candidates who actually truly intend their run, since they won’t have as much of an organization backing them.

I don’t know how to square this one.

 

[ArmyRick]

Then, as I said, Elector Reform needs to be a bigger issue from the Opposition than it has been in the past.

How many Canadians were screaming for electoral reform last election? VERY few. So why would either the LPC or CPC need electoral reform just because of the snot nosed kid who doesn't like first past the post system? The Libs and Cons are pretty much ok with FPTP, it works both ways.

Electoral reform was a nothing issue this past election, it just wasn't important enough. Its NOT AN ISSUE at this time.

So for the mouthy marxist brat (he has admitted it publicly) Mr Tomas Szuchewycz this too f-ing bad he doesn't get his way. That is DEMOCRACY. He is representing 104 (at this time) of the so called "candidates" and these candidates (some of who "ran" in the Carleton riding last April election) will do ZERO door knocking, canvassing, self promotion, attendance at public events, etc.

I am not pissed about this because Pierre is. I was pissed about this when I first heard about it during the 2024 by elections. It was pure fuckery then and it is now. Its a stupid game and at this time it is lawful. Not acceptable but lawful.

Would try out for a football team but not actually intend to get on the team? No

Would you attend Selection at Dwyer hill and have no interest in being a Special Operations Assaulter? Hell no.

You DO NOT run as an MP in any riding unless you legitimately want to be an MP in that riding. Nothing anybody has said changes the truth of what I just stated. And that means doing the leg work.

There was a petition to stop this horseshit sponsored by Ned Kurek MP and before it closed it reached more than 30,000 signatures. Lets see how this unfolds.

As for Tomas Szuchewycz/Mark Moutter (yes he has an alias), I hope he gets get scorned for this and finds his ass cancelled by society, he deserves it. If you "shrug it off" people here don't get what an issue this punk is, its people like this who don't stop at this. It will be one issue after another they push on society at large.

 

[McG]

How many Canadians were screaming for electoral reform last election? VERY few. So why would either the LPC or CPC need electoral reform just because of the snot nosed kid who doesn't like first past the post system? The Libs and Cons are pretty much ok with FPTP, it works both ways.

The Liberals and Conservatives are happy with FPTP because they both think they can game it for a perpetual majority, and they know it keeps third parties from "stealing" their power. If you don't remember calls for electoral reform in the recent past, it is maybe because you didn't care to hear calls for electoral reform. There were plenty.

You are starting to turn a little toxic on this topic. You might want to go relax with a beer instead of any more name calling.

 

[brihard]

If you "shrug it off" people here don't get what an issue this punk is, its people like this who don't stop at this. It will be one issue after another they push on society at large.

Then deal with actual future conduct if it actually escalates into something that breaks the law.

The actual tangible impact of this stunt - because of course it’s a stunt - is pretty negligible. There’s a high risk of a ‘baby with the bathwater’ issue in trying too aggressively to curb this, versus the chilling impact on the rights of any citizen to run for office, or of the right to protest.

I do think it’s a minor problem and I hope someone smarter than me finds a solution, I just don’t know what that looks like.

 

[ArmyRick]

I hope someone smarter than me finds a solution, I just don’t know what that looks like

Fair enough. I think a parliamentary committee could sort this out quick.

The Liberals and Conservatives are happy with FPTP

So 84% of Canadians that voted last election? Thanks, sounds to me like a majority of the voters. In other words, changing FPTP was NOT AN ISSUE

You are starting to turn a little toxic on this topic.

So shut up? We don't want to talk about it? Nope. Get ready for more toxicity.

My point still stands and NO ONE has gone against it.

You run as an MP candidate in a riding for the intent of being an MP in that same riding. That still stands and it doesn't change. All the other nonsensical justification for this horseshit is pure noise trying to cancel the actual signal.

 

[ArmyRick]

An excellent video showing the history behind the longest ballot protest and some valuable insights including the fact they chickened out from a chance to discuss it.

 

[McG]

So 84% of Canadians that voted last election? Thanks, sounds to me like a majority of the voters. In other words, changing FPTP was NOT AN ISSUE

Percent of Canadians who voted is the same as percent of Canadian happy with FPTP.

Get ready for more toxicity.

We don't need anymore, thanks.

My point still stands and NO ONE has gone against it.

You haven't really made a point. You've yelled at clouds and spoken derogatorily of anyone who might thing electoral reform would be good for Canada. The longest ballot thing is stupid, but it is no impediment to the electoral process, and it has no statistical impact on the outcome.

 

[brihard]

You run as an MP candidate in a riding for the intent of being an MP in that same riding. That still stands and it doesn't change.

Does it stand? In a lot of ridings only one party has a realistic chance of getting elected. Anyone putting their name in as the NDP or LPC candidate for Battle River - Crowfoot knows damned well they aren't getting it, and you can bet they aren't making any career plans or arrangements in anticipation of that. And whoa re you or I to say that if one of these individuals were elected they wouldn't show up to work and do the job? That happened to a number of very surprised NDP 'also-rans' a few elections ago.

Being a candidate in an election is a Section 3 Charter right. There are certain permitted limitations to that, but they aren't broad. The charter right is specifically to candidacy, which further constrains any measures to restrict people putting their name forward. This isn't an easy problem to wave away, and to be blunt it's not one you've proposed any realistic solution to.

 

[ArmyRick]

You've yelled at clouds

You can insult me, I really don't give a shit

Percent of Canadians who voted is the same as percent of Canadian happy with FPTP.

Which Political Party promised in 2025 to look at electoral reform? None. If it was an issue, it would have come up much more than Trump, Tariffs, Trade, Housing, Defence, Crime, Climate, etc. It didn't.

You haven't really made a point.

So what is the reason one puts their name on a ballot to run as an MP? It sure as hell shouldn't be because they want to protest the electoral system.

 

[ArmyRick]

Does it stand? In a lot of ridings only one party has a realistic chance of getting elected. Anyone putting their name in as the NDP or LPC candidate for Battle River - Crowfoot knows damned well they aren't getting it, and you can bet they aren't making any career plans or arrangements in anticipation of that. And whoa re you or I to say that if one of these individuals were elected they wouldn't show up to work and do the job? That happened to a number of very surprised NDP 'also-rans' a few elections ago.

Being a candidate in an election is a Section 3 Charter right. There are certain permitted limitations to that, but they aren't broad. The charter right is specifically to candidacy, which further constrains any measures to restrict people putting their name forward. This isn't an easy problem to wave away, and to be blunt it's not one you've proposed any realistic solution to.

Your getting wrapped up in the legality of it and right now, its legal. Doesn't make it moral. And it is p[issing off a lot of Canadians. I suspect this will be dealt with sooner than later. I hope in parliamentary committee with some amendments so only people actually seeking to be an MP run.

 

[McG]

So what is the reason one puts their name on a ballot to run as an MP? It sure as hell shouldn't be because they want to protest the electoral system.

It is a citizen's right to put their name in the competition for whatever reason they want, and if they get elected then they have the rest of that parliament to make electoral reform their focus.

 

[Remius]

It is a citizen's right to put their name in the competition for whatever reason they want,

the Rhino party comes to mind. I’d hate to see them sidelined lol.

 

[dapaterson]

the Rhino party comes to mind. I’d hate to see them sidelined lol.

Ruth Brosseau was a sacrificial NDP candidate who was elected and became a decent MP.

 

[ArmyRick]

It is a citizen's right to put their name in the competition for whatever reason they want, and if they get elected then they have the rest of that parliament to make electoral reform their focus.

The organizer of the Longest ballot committee has openly stated they are jamming up ballots to purely to protest FPTP.

Want to make a change to FPTP? Get a petition and an MP to sponsor it and do it PROPERLY.

Gumming up a ballot for a federal by election with 100+ names to protest FPTP is not the way to do it. Its wasting everyone's time. You have to swear a solemn declaration as to your intent to run. I doubt they swear to run as a candidate for the purpose of protest.

Step 4. Completing and Submitting the Nomination Package - Becoming a Candidate

Tools for Nomination Contestants.

www.elections.ca

 

[brihard]

Your getting wrapped up in the legality of it and right now, its legal. Doesn't make it moral. And it is p[issing off a lot of Canadians. I suspect this will be dealt with sooner than later. I hope in parliamentary committee with some amendments so only people actually seeking to be an MP run.

The legality is absolutely key to it. I've already agreed that this is an annoying stunt, so you can see that I don't like it. I don't like a lot of things, but that means nothing next to someone's right to do or say a thing.

A Parliamentary Committee making 'some amendments' cannot change this. They don't have the power to. Committees can study and call witnesses and debate and propose amendments to bills that are going through the legislative process. Cabinet can amend regulations. But a committee of Parliament can't just wave their hands at something that vexes them and change the rules.

And even if there's legislative change it will still have to survive Charter challenge should it come to that. Section 3 doesn't allow for many outs on this, and it's no subject to the Notwithstanding Clause were that extreme option to be proposed.

At the end of the day there's minimal actual harm or impact form this stunt. It's just annoying and dumb. It's doesn't tangibly hurt our democracy.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Gumming up a ballot for a federal by election with 100+ names to protest FPTP is not the way to do it. Its wasting everyone's time. You have to swear a solemn declaration as to your intent to run. I doubt they swear to run as a candidate for the purpose of protest.

It used to cost $1000 to run as an independent in a by-election
but it was struck down in 2017 by a federal judge on charter grounds. They could always explore bringing that back, that way if someone really wants to play longest ballot it'll cost them $1000 for the game.

 

[AmmoTech90]

You run as an MP candidate in a riding for the intent of being an MP in that same riding.

Pierre will not be an effective MP for Wainwright as he knows nothing about. Marlaina is a completely ineffective MLA in Medicine Hat as she got parachuted in there and is pretty much a ghost.
So no, leaders don't run to be a riding MP. They run to be a leader, and Pierre has failed once and needs a very secure seat with little chance of problems in the riding that he might have to deal with as a MP.
I know that's not what the intent is, but that's how it works.

 

[ArmyRick]

but it was struck down in 2017 by a federal judge on charter grounds.

That challenge was made by Kieran Szuchewycz, the older brother of Tomas Szuchewycz, the main organizer of the longest ballot committee. Just giving you more info.

Mods, maybe any more discussion on longest ballot protest should split into its own thread?

 

[The Bread Guy]

... Mods, maybe any more discussion on longest ballot protest should split into its own thread?

Makes sense, given the back-and-forth just on these rules - done.

Army.ca Staff