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A Deeply Fractured US

Well Donald J is a bit of a spoilt brat. In no way should a liberal democracy attempt to silence a comedian for what they say, within boundaries of course.

I never like Jimmy Kimmel or many of his brethren who's only shtick was roasting Republicans and giving Democrats a free pass.\

Where is George Carlin when you need him????
Remember the quaint olde days of the White House Correspondents' Association ('White House Press Corps') annual gala dinner where the President would attend and they would roast him - for charity. According to Wiki, every president since 1924 has attended, except Trump.

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To me, the issue isn't whether talk show hosts, commentators, columnists, etc. say mean things, make fun of the President, are or are not funny in any particular person's opinion or even are accurate in what they say. The issue is the Administration threatening the power of the State to silence them. Has any previous administration done this? I'm surprised how anyone who believes in the concept of a liberal democracy can justify this. (General comment - not linked to Brad)
 
From a former Tea Party and Republican congressman and mentor to Charlie Kirk to his MAGA friends.


Dear MAGA friends,

I didn’t think I’d be writing back to you so soon, but here we are. Last week, I joined you in sadness over the killing of Charlie Kirk. I knew Charlie well years ago. He was my political son, and I helped him launch Turning Point USA in 2012. We later parted ways over Donald Trump, but I never, ever wished him harm. His death is tragic, and I grieve for his wife and family.
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Charlie and me, way back in 2013
I want to tell you a story about Charlie. Back in December 2015, he urged me to go on Facebook and respond to then-Attorney General Loretta Lynch. She had suggested that people who criticized Islam might be investigated, following the mass shooting in San Bernardino. I lost it. I dared her to throw me in jail. That rant went viral, and then the feds showed up to intimidate me.

That was the “old” Joe Walsh, who, as I often say, was a divisive political asshole. I’m sharing this now only to show that, even though I was an ignorant loudmouth back then, I’ve always been consistent on my bedrock beliefs, whether left, right, or center. I’ve changed a lot since then, but I remain a free speech absolutist. Government must not censor speech. Nothing sets me off more than a politician telling Americans what they can or cannot say.

That’s why what JD Vance and Pam Bondi are doing right now enrages me. They’re using the power of government to threaten and punish speech. That’s not conservatism. And more importantly, that’s not America.

From Free Speech Absolutists to Triggered Snowflakes?​

Look, I think it’s stupid and beneath the Office of the Vice President to go on a podcast and encourage Americans to rat each other out over mean tweets. It’s par for the course for JD Vance, who, nine years after comparing Trump to Hitler, wants nothing more than to earn your devotion, as Charlie Kirk did.

However, this is not unconstitutional. A private company has every right to fire anyone if they see them posting ugly stuff online that doesn’t represent the company well. That’s the reality of free markets. So if you have the time and inclination to be a bunch of snitches for the government, I think it’s lame, but you can do it. You might want to quit whining about the deep state though.

Pam Bondi’s comments were something else entirely. She threatened to criminally prosecute an Office Depot employee who refused to print Charlie Kirk flyers. Think about that. The Attorney General of the United States using the power of government to intimidate a private citizen for declining to make political propaganda. My friends, that’s not freedom. That’s tyranny.

Remember the Colorado baker who didn’t want to make a wedding cake for a same-sex couple because it violated his religious beliefs? Conservatives defended him, arguing he shouldn’t be forced to participate in speech he disagreed with. And we were right to defend him. But now, when an Office Depot clerk refuses to print Charlie Kirk flyers, you’re not satisfied that they were fired—you’re demanding prosecution? You’re beyond the people we used to ridicule.

When I was in Congress and later had my own conservative radio show, I pretty ruthlessly mocked the left for being so easily offended. “Safe spaces” on college campuses. Protests to ban controversial speakers. Liberals demanding protections from “hate speech.” We laughed and said they were fragile snowflakes.


Well, now the shoe’s on the other foot. MAGA has become the new cancel culture. You’re demanding people lose their jobs, their visas, their passports for saying things you don’t like. The Pentagon is tracking comments. Marco Rubio wants immigrants deported for criticizing Charlie Kirk. Pam Bondi says “hate speech isn’t free speech”—the same false claim some Democrats used to make.

Frankly, I don’t get it. Don’t MAGA folks hate that the UK is punishing speech? Isn’t that one of the big reasons why you gave Trump another term—to prevent America from going the way of Europe? So why are self-described defenders of liberty now trying to silence, shame, and punish their critics? Hate them all you want, but Joe Biden and Kamala Harris never tried to take your job away because of something you tweeted.

And by the way, there is no such thing as “hate speech” under the First Amendment. Speech is speech. That’s what makes America unique. That’s why we’ve endured for 249 years.



Well said, Charlie
Getting back to Charlie, MAGA leaders are elevating him to near-biblical status. Greg Gutfeld says his death isn’t just a tragedy—it’s a turning point in history. Trump calls him a martyr and blames the “radical left” for his murder. His widow issues a battle cry: “The evildoers who took Charlie’s life have NO idea what they have done.” Elected Republicans say the entire Democratic Party is to blame. That’s not mourning. That’s weaponizing grief to ignite a holy war.

When the government starts talking about its own citizens as though it is battling “evil,” it is using the exact playbook that’s been used by authoritarian governments around the world throughout history: take a tragedy, inflate it into a cosmic struggle, and then use it to justify silencing the opposition (or worse). C’mon MAGA, you used to know that.

The Double Standard—and the Hypocrisy​

For the past week, I’ve heard MAGA folks say, “Imagine if a Democrat were assassinated—the left would be rioting in the streets.” Well, I don’t have to imagine. It happened three months ago.

In an act of political violence, Minnesota State Rep. Melissa Hortman, the Speaker of the House there, was brutally murdered in her home, along with her husband, by an anti-abortion Trump supporter. Their dog was killed too. She left behind two children. How did Democrats react? They called for gun reform. There were vigils. There were tears. But there were no riots. No one declared war on Republicans. No one accused the entire GOP of killing her. No one called for silencing Trump voters.

On the other hand, some Republican leaders cracked jokes. Trump dismissed giving a call to Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz as a “waste of time.” He didn’t even remember it happened, just three months later. No appearance at her funeral. No flags lowered. No medals of honor.

And Melissa Hortman’s children? They issued one simple statement: honor our parents by planting a tree, petting a dog, baking something, telling a dad joke. That’s it. They didn’t raise money, demonize half the country, or demand revenge. They modeled grace in grief.

Contrast that with Charlie Kirk’s family, friends, and political allies—already turning his death into a fundraiser and a rallying cry for a holy war. Which reaction is the more Christian one? Which reaction truly honors the dead?

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Now ask yourself this question: Does Melissa Hortman’s death matter less than Charlie Kirk’s because she was a Democrat? If that’s what you believe, it’s time to log off social media and come back to reality. And if you’ve got “Christian” in your bio, maybe it’s time to remove that, too. After all, Christ commanded His followers to love their enemies—even, yes, political enemies.

Punishing enemies, on the other hand, is exactly what authoritarian governments do. Using state power to silence dissent. Redefining free speech to exclude speech they don’t like. Demanding loyalty not to the Constitution but to one man. And all of it is happening right now, under a Republican government—not a Democratic one, as we conservatives long feared.


JD Vance stood in for Charlie on the radio and said political violence is “only a left-wing problem.” Not only is that statement wildly irresponsible, it’s a flat-out lie. We’ve seen violence from both extremes, and in fact, we’ve seen a lot more of it from the far-right over the past 30 years or so. But Vance’s lie serves a purpose: to justify silencing the left entirely. To frame Democrats as “the enemy” in a cosmic battle.

I’m not writing this as an establishment elite. I’m writing this as someone who came from your ranks, who carried a pocket Constitution, who shouted about liberty on conservative talk radio, who voted with the Tea Party, who once stood shoulder to shoulder with you. And I’m telling you: you’ve become exactly what we despised—and feared.

If you don’t call this out now, if you don’t demand your leaders stop this madness, you will lose the very thing you (and Charlie) claimed to defend: FREEDOM. Because once you justify silencing one group, the government will eventually silence you too.

A Final Plea​

Charlie Kirk’s death was a tragedy. But tragedy should humble us, not harden us. It should remind us of the fragility of life and the need for compassion—not fuel calls for war.

You want to honor Charlie? Mourn him. Celebrate his work. Pray for his family. But don’t exploit his death to shred the Constitution. Don’t turn him into Jesus Christ to justify persecuting your neighbors. Speech must be free, even when it’s offensive, even when it’s ugly. That’s the American way.

MAGA friends, look in the mirror. If you support this incursion on our most basic freedom, you’re not on the side of liberty anymore. You’re the very thing you used to mock: “the left.” And not the real left, but a creation of right-wing media to make you think that everyone who thinks differently than you is out to get you.

So call this shit out. Because if Pam Bondi gets her way, the America we both love is done.

Respectfully,
Joe Walsh
Former U.S. Congressman
 
Well Donald J is a bit of a spoilt brat. In no way should a liberal democracy attempt to silence a comedian for what they say, within boundaries of course.

I never like Jimmy Kimmel or many of his brethren who's only shtick was roasting Republicans and giving Democrats a free pass.\

Where is George Carlin when you need him????
There's a definite blood in the water response when 'Do as I say not as I do' celebrity types finally get brought to task.

I recall Kimmel doing black face a bunch, and this gem of a video sexualizing women.




None of that takes away from the Trump administration's insane efforts to weaponize censorship and attack anyone who is critical of them. Republicans and Democrats should be equally up in arms over that crap.
 
Has any previous administration done this?
In the context of the Pentagon's demands about releasing unauthorized material, Obama's war on leakers. Laymen can argue the distinction between unauthorized materials and leaks of classified materials, but the institutional media disapproved then as they do now. They've argued continuously that they aren't legally liable for leakers' crimes and that they have a right (obligation) to protect sources that shields them from prosecutions for doing so.

I gather the immediate fracas is over a provision in legislation that requires traditional licenced broadcasters to serve "public interest". Of course that's a broad requirement that can be stretched to fit many purposes. Carr has already noted that Congress has authority to change the legislation if it wishes. What that means is that the template is the same as one applied by past administrations when they know or believe their aims aren't manifestly permissible:
  • find a legislative provision that seems to suit purpose
  • apply it
  • respond if challenged in courts
  • respect decision if unsuccessful
  • move on to another legislative provision that seems to suit purpose
Sometimes they've done it expecting to lose, but knowing that what they do in the meantime cannot practically be undone (eg. Obama and DACA; Biden shoveling student loan forgiveness out the door) - exercises in plain bad faith.
 
MAGAs would be infuriated and calling him a RINO because of this!... If they could read...
The closest people to being "MAGA" are probably almost all nat-cons. The other flavours of US conservatives that sometimes agree with the administration should be expected to occasionally disagree. This is dissent between sub-factions.
 
Republicans and Democrats should be equally up in arms over that crap.
They have to find a place to draw a bright line between entertainers and people critics of administration policy first. The forward thinking ones don't want to undermine tools they've used in the past and might need to use in the future.
 
Left and right quirky. Republicans and Democrats.

Whatever right wing influencers you listen to are likely to get targeted using the same methods whenever the democrats take over.

Some on the right have realised this and are calling this for what it is.

This is all just theater and entertainment.

All anyone can do is just watch from the cheap seats. The democrats are too busy telling everyone why Trump is bad, not why they should be elected. They're currently an aimless party still obsessed with identity politics.
 
Saw this about playing the political blame game,


At least one very prominent extreme right political influencer with the administration’s ear wants to go full Reichstag fire on this one.

Historical reference,

 
He’d likely be just as muzzled given his general anti-government stances.
Depends on whether he worked for a public broadcaster. Kimmel is one guy. Trump has multitudes of critics, all saying pretty much what they want. Some are employees working for owners/shareholders and some are not. How many are in Kimmel's situation other than Kimmel? Program ratings aren't hard to find. Kimmel reportedly was going to continue with more in the same vein when told by the network to in effect pull back. Network affiliates complained they couldn't sell enough advertising in Kimmel's time slot. Do the financial arithmetic.

It's possible for these two things to be true:
  • Carr's intervention was deplorable and ought not be repeated (generally all government actors, not just Congress, are now bound by the 1A notwithstanding its particular phrasing)
  • Kimmel was fired indefinitely suspended for shit ratings (losing money) and threatening to continue his diatribe, on the heels of complaints from clients

Hypothesis: Carr/FCC coincidentally provided a plausible excuse but not the reason.

If money-losing critics working on someone else's dime continue to be shown the door while others not answerable for their content to any kind of federal legislation continue business as usual, the cause is obvious.
 
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Depends on whether he worked for a public broadcaster.
You’re right about the potential for other reasons to shit can Kimmel. That said, given the general love for public broadcasting coming out of the POTUS47 Machine, I’m suuuuuuuure the Carlin’s of the world would be safe on PBS with quotes like these:
“In America, anyone can become president. That’s the problem.”
“Sooner or later the people in this country are going to realize: the government does not give a fuck about them. The government doesn’t care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare, or your safety.”
“Parents are full of shit, teachers are full of shit, clergymen are full of shit, and law enforcement people are full…of…shit—this entire country. This entire country is completely full of shit, and always has been. From the Declaration of Independence to the Constitution to the Star-Spangled Banner, it’s still nothing more than one big steaming pile of red, white, and blue, all-American bullshit.”
“I've set my own rules to live by. The first one is: 'Never believe ANYthing the government says.”
 
Depends on whether he worked for a public broadcaster. Kimmel is one guy. Trump has multitudes of critics, all saying pretty much what they want. Some are employees working for owners/shareholders and some are not. How many are in Kimmel's situation other than Kimmel? Program ratings aren't hard to find. Kimmel reportedly was going to continue with more in the same vein when told by the network to in effect pull back. Network affiliates complained they couldn't sell enough advertising in Kimmel's time slot. Do the financial arithmetic.

It's possible for these two things to be true:
  • Carr's intervention was deplorable and ought not be repeated (generally all government actors, not just Congress, are now bound by the 1A notwithstanding its particular phrasing)
  • Kimmel was fired indefinitely suspended for shit ratings (losing money) and threatening to continue his diatribe, on the heels of complaints from clients

Hypothesis: Carr/FCC coincidentally provided a plausible excuse but not the reason.

If money-losing critics working on someone else's dime continue to be shown the door while others not answerable for their content to any kind of federal legislation continue business as usual, the cause is obvious.
The more concerning question to me is what are the reasons for the decline in advertising.
His ratings were not that bad, especially considering the entire type of industry was taking a hit.

Let’s be honest the Trump47 Administration hasn’t been shy about leaning on people and companies to steer a course.

There is a lot of fear going on about retribution for opposing the ‘King’.
 
You’re right about the potential for other reasons to shit can Kimmel. That said, given the general love for public broadcasting coming out of the POTUS47 Machine, I’m suuuuuuuure the Carlin’s of the world would be safe on PBS with quotes like these:
Trump has occasionally demonstrated thick skin. And would his response to general criticism of American government or America be to say "How dare you?" or "You're right, and I'm the guy who is going to fix it." He has obviously made past remarks to the effect of the latter.
 
You’re right about the potential for other reasons to shit can Kimmel. That said, given the general love for public broadcasting coming out of the POTUS47 Machine, I’m suuuuuuuure the Carlin’s of the world would be safe on PBS with quotes like these:
“In America, anyone can become president. That’s the problem.”
“Sooner or later the people in this country are going to realize: the government does not give a fuck about them. The government doesn’t care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare, or your safety.”
“Parents are full of shit, teachers are full of shit, clergymen are full of shit, and law enforcement people are full…of…shit—this entire country. This entire country is completely full of shit, and always has been. From the Declaration of Independence to the Constitution to the Star-Spangled Banner, it’s still nothing more than one big steaming pile of red, white, and blue, all-American bullshit.”
“I've set my own rules to live by. The first one is: 'Never believe ANYthing the government says.”
Add in "People I Can Do Without, Here is My List"

THIS is hilarious - a nun with a bullwhip and a bottle of gin...

No Problem Yes GIF
 
The more concerning question to me is what are the reasons for the decline in advertising.
His ratings were not that bad, especially considering the entire type of industry was taking a hit.
Advertisers prefer not to buy in time slots with poor ratings. As much as progressives like their Colberts and Kimmels, not enough of them are watching to make up for whatever share of conservatives has been lost in the past 25 years since many became monolithically critics of the right and defenders of the left.
Let’s be honest the Trump47 Administration hasn’t been shy about leaning on people and companies to steer a course.
Sure, but that's an old behaviour of administrations. Strong-arming conventional and social media was a mistake when past administrations did it. Regardless, depending on Trumpers to improve the situation is hopeless. If hope is the strategy and there's actually no hope, there's no strategy at all.
There is a lot of fear going on about retribution for opposing the ‘King’.
Those people can join the sea of comedians reluctant or simply refusing to ever lampoon Obama for fear of blacklisting, cancellation, whatever.

Main (usual) point: very, very, very little of what is happening now is unprecedented. I suppose some people feel overwhelmed because the administration and its supporters are trying to move the dial in one year as much as it moved in 20. It's just a difference of scale over time.
 
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