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Trump administration 2024-2028

The principle is the same.
If your plan is to sit people in trenches catching drones in the face and not moving anywhere then 100%.

Russia, and to a lesser extent, Ukraine, are proving that drones, which are only getting deadlier and being fielded in ever increasing numbers, are causing ever increasing numbers of dead and wounded. Units that are better able to reinforce are going to be more effective than units that focus solely on fitness and beards.
I don't believe anyone is arguing for units to "focus solely on fitness". Is that guy in the US arguing for this?

You can be reasonably fit while being busy at work and taking care of your family.

And that unit of 500 obese soldiers will outlast the unit of 100 unfit ones who themselves would outlast a unit of 50 super fit soldiers.
I dont think you have a realistic view on unfit vs fit soldiers in combat operations (again, outside or sitting in a trench and your only job is to catch drones)

We can pretend like Russia and Ukraine don't know what they are doing, but fun fact, they are two of the most combat experienced armies in the world right now and we disregard what they are learning at our peril.
I don't religiously watch videos but I don't see a lot of obese Ukrainian and Russian soldiers on the front lines.

I've seen the drone strike videos on Reddit, NSFW clearly. When a drone is bearing down on these guys, do you think it matters worth a damn whether they can do 100 push ups, run 15 kms, and 6 pack abs? They turn to meat.
Honestly yes. There's as many videos out there of soldiers narrowly dodging drone strikes. Navigating through chaotic trenches and making it to overhead protection just in time. Running for cover, and of course carrying out one of the best forms of combat - trench warfare.

If front line units in future peer to peer combat are taking 30-50 percent casualties per assault, the focus needs to be on how to replace those losses,

Unfit and out of shape soldiers increase the risk; now you're taking 70% casualties.
 
I’m not going to argue troops don’t need to be fit. They absolutely should be. I also seen chubbies out PT “fitter” troops. I don’t know how they do it but they do it.

I would say that Ukraine has shown us that beards do not make troops ineffective and Russia has shown us that hazing, beatings and austere conditions do not make effective troops.
 
I don't know where the whole beard hate thing came from, but aside from CBRN and FF requirements around the mask fit well groomed and properly maintained beards and facial hair generally shouldn't be an issue. Plenty of people look terrible clean shaven, and some people manage to have messy short hair, so if presentation is the thing SECDEF is getting wound up about that's really what should be the focus.

Those people that rolled around looking like homeless bridge trolls that hadn't seen a comb in decades weeks after they loosened things with Beardforgen is what ruined it, not the guys spending hours a week sculpting some kind of viking or Hammarabi beard; that level of beardcare is a level of grooming that goes way beyond what most women will ever do for hairstyling.
 
If your plan is to sit people in trenches catching drones in the face and not moving anywhere then 100%.
Except the Russians have been grabbing troops of questionable quality and throwing them at the frontline. Ukraine is scooping men off the streets to throw them at the front. Both sides of that war are not looking for the most fit, most capable men to man their fronts. They are looking for men, period.
I don't believe anyone is arguing for units to "focus solely on fitness". Is that guy in the US arguing for this?

When it comes to combat arms units, and there are many different stripes across our joint force, the era of politically correct, overly sensitive, don't hurt anyone's feelings leadership ends right now. At every level, either you can meet the standard, either you can do the job, either you are disciplined, fit and trained, or you are out.

And that's why today at my direction -- and this is the first of ten Department of War directives that are arriving at your commands as we speak and in your inbox. Today, at my direction, each service will ensure that every requirement for every combat MOS, for every designated combat arms position returns to the highest male standard only. Because this job is life or death. Standards must be met. And not just met. At every level, we should seek to exceed the standard, to push the envelope, to compete. It's common sense and core to who we are and what we do. It should be in our DNA.

Today, at my direction, we are also adding a combat field test for combat arms units that must be executable in any environment at any time and with combat equipment. These tests, they'll look familiar. They'll resemble the Army Expert Physical Fitness Assessment or the Marine Corps Combat Fitness Test. I'm also directing that warfighters in combat jobs execute their service fitness test at a gender-neutral age normed male standard scored above 70 percent.

It all starts with physical fitness and appearance. If the secretary of war can do regular hard PT, so can every member of our joint force. Frankly, it's tiring to look out at combat formations, or really any formation, and see fat troops. Likewise, it's completely unacceptable to see fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon and leading commands around the country and the world. It's a bad look. It is bad, and it's not who we are.

So, whether you're an airborne Ranger or a chairborne Ranger, a brand new private or a four star general, you need to meet the height and weight standards and pass your PT test. And as the chairman said, yes, there is no PT test. But today, at my direction, every member of the joint force at every rank is required to take a PT test twice a year, as well as meet height and weight requirements twice a year every year of service.
I would say yes.
You can be reasonably fit while being busy at work and taking care of your family.
Sure. In attritional warfare, I don't see that as being the reason for being able to serve or not.
I dont think you have a realistic view on unfit vs fit soldiers in combat operations (again, outside or sitting in a trench and your only job is to catch drones)
Soldiers in Ukraine have many jobs, they just happen to be catching drones.


Drones are responsible for a staggering 60 to 70 percent of killed and wounded soldiers in Ukraine, according to combat medics.
I don't religiously watch videos but I don't see a lot of obese Ukrainian and Russian soldiers on the front lines.
I see fat soldiers, I see thin soldiers, I see soldiers who look like they are pushing 60, I see soldiers who look like they just got out of high school. Drones blow them up all the same.
Honestly yes. There's as many videos out there of soldiers narrowly dodging drone strikes. Navigating through chaotic trenches and making it to overhead protection just in time. Running for cover, and of course carrying out one of the best forms of combat - trench warfare.
You also see troops in the open assaulting a position just accepting their fate because, one, it's the steppes, and two, the drone will follow them to kill them. And if they dodge one...there is another. And another. Fitness, its great, but it's not the end all of combat arms soldiers. Numbers are.
Unfit and out of shape soldiers increase the risk; now you're taking 70% casualties.
Again, even with those numbers, replacing them is the most important part. Does the USA limit recruitment because more people aren't going to make the standards? They are looking to have a situation where they have less and less reinforcements for their losses, while a country like Russia is simply filling the ranks with whoever will sign up. And that's if your numbers even make sense, which they don't seem to, because the VDV, who I don't believe anyone would call unfit, are facing the same casualty numbers. Drones don't care.
 
Except the Russians have been grabbing troops of questionable quality and throwing them at the frontline. Ukraine is scooping men off the streets to throw them at the front. Both sides of that war are not looking for the most fit, most capable men to man their fronts. They are looking for men, period.
They've worn themselves down to a war of attrition. If they're throwing prisoners onto the front lines then they don't care who they get.

That's silly for us to emulate that.

I read the whole speech and I don't see anywhere buddy says they're going to focus solely on fitness. That implies all other training falls away.

He does say they will do PT every day, which is awesome , and:

So, whether you're an airborne Ranger or a chairborne Ranger, a brand new private or a four star general, you need to meet the height and weight standards and pass your PT test.

That sounds great. What part of meeting the standard don't you like?
I see fat soldiers, I see thin soldiers, I see soldiers who look like they are pushing 60, I see soldiers who look like they just got out of high school. Drones blow them up all the same.
Mind sharing a video or two of these obese soldiers in trenches?

You also see troops in the open assaulting a position just accepting their fate because, one, it's the steppes, and two, the drone will follow them to kill them. And if they dodge one...there is another. And another. Fitness, its great, but it's not the end all of combat arms soldiers. Numbers are.
So a fit soldier will dodge 3 or 4 drones and an unfair soldier will see one and accept their fate. That's making an argument for fit soldiers to me.

It seems like your idea of being fit is JTF2 levels of endurance.
 
They've worn themselves down to a war of attrition. If they're throwing prisoners onto the front lines then they don't care who they get.

That's silly for us to emulate that.
Emulate the Russians? I agree. But even the Ukrainians are grabbing people off the streets.
I read the whole speech and I don't see anywhere buddy says they're going to focus solely on fitness. That implies all other training falls away.

He does say they will do PT every day, which is awesome , and:
PT every day, great. I do love it, assuming people aren't needing to work late or harder to make up for PT+shower time.

Don't meet fitness and you're out? Bad. Simply bad policy.
That sounds great. What part of meeting the standard don't you like?
If the standard becomes a limiting factor for recruitment or replacing losses then it's a dumb policy.
Mind sharing a video or two of these obese soldiers in trenches?
I cannot share NSFW videos here, thanks.
So a fit soldier will dodge 3 or 4 drones and an unfair soldier will see one and accept their fate. That's making an argument for fit soldiers to me.
I see fit soldiers doing the same. There is little cover in the steppes. Being fit doesn't make one superman.
It seems like your idea of being fit is JTF2 levels of endurance.
By saying people will be kicked out, while looking towards a war of potential attrition, I'm going to call it a stupid policy.
 
Emulate the Russians? I agree. But even the Ukrainians are grabbing people off the streets.
Yeah it's very dystopian. Real Death Korps of Krieg stuff.

PT every day, great. I do love it, assuming people aren't needing to work late or harder to make up for PT+shower time.
That's a fair point. It's poor quality of life stuff to make someonenstay later because of poor time management.

If someone let themselves get wildly out of shape then they can also do PT twice a day. Or if they don't like that then find a job where they can eat McDonald's all day.

Don't meet fitness and you're out? Bad. Simply bad policy.
My friends husband wa kicked out for failing some kind of weight ir waist standard. It wasn't over night, he had a lot of chances. I've seen Canadian soldiers dodge the force test for 5+ years. They weren't "contributing " to the CAF in a meaningful way.

I cannot share NSFW videos here, thanks.
Can you PM me the examples please.

I see fit soldiers doing the same. There is little cover in the steppes. Being fit doesn't make one superman.
Being unfit in the military is like playing a video game on hard mode.
By saying people will be kicked out, while looking towards a war of potential attrition, I'm going to call it a stupid policy.
And they will potentially attached Americans who want to be challanged, be proud of their service, and not associated with Rufus here.

Dogmask-photos.jpg
 
Yeah it's very dystopian. Real Death Korps of Krieg stuff.
Just the reality of war.
That's a fair point. It's poor quality of life stuff to make someonenstay later because of poor time management.
I agree
If someone let themselves get wildly out of shape then they can also do PT twice a day. Or if they don't like that then find a job where they can eat McDonald's all day.
Again, when all the fit soldiers are dead, what happens?
My friends husband wa kicked out for failing some kind of weight ir waist standard. It wasn't over night, he had a lot of chances. I've seen Canadian soldiers dodge the force test for 5+ years. They weren't "contributing " to the CAF in a meaningful way.
Yet drone operators just need two working hands.
Can you PM me the examples please.
You asked for it, try not to get me banned, ya?
Being unfit in the military is like playing a video game on hard mode.
It certainly is.
And they will potentially attached Americans who want to be challanged, be proud of their service, and not associated with Rufus here.

View attachment 96094
Notice I've narrowed my scope to their fitness regs.
 
Canadian steel maker appears to be about to invoke force majeure in dealing with a US supplier.

That was going to happen with the accelerated adopting of their EAFs and shutdown of their blast furnace due to America’s tariffs. I suspect the game plan is to just see how much they don’t have to pay.
 
Again, when all the fit soldiers are dead, what happens?
Then we can recruit on r/canada. They're ready to fight the US over there.

Yet drone operators just need two working hands.
Maybe even 1.

You asked for it, try not to get me banned, ya?
Of course not. You views are a great addition to the collective here. Please send away.

Notice I've narrowed my scope to their fitness regs.
Yes.

They're going to lose a lot of great female soldiers over this. Lots of male soldiers too.

Military leadership shouldn't have let it het to this point because in typical military fashion they're using a sledge hammer on a finishing nail.
 
I wonder how long it will be before the administration starts taking the same tack with federal LE? Or will ICE Barbie stand in the way?

Ironically...

Trump admin lowers FBI recruitment standards in a deeply ironic twist​

The administration is reportedly set to lower its education and training standards for people looking to work for the nation's top law enforcement agency.

The Trump administration has sought to portray itself as a meritocracy fit for only the most competent employees, despite all evidence to the contrary.

And yet, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, within this purported meritocracy, is reportedly planning to lower its recruitment standards in response to a crisis of the administration’s own making.

As The New York Times reported Thursday:

The Trump administration is preparing to lower the recruitment standards for F.B.I. agents, eliciting alarm from many agents who worry that the move will undermine the agency’s primary mission of conducting complex investigations and tracking threats to national security. Under a plan pushed by the director, Kash Patel, and his deputy, Dan Bongino, the F.B.I. will start welcoming new classes of recruits who will receive less training and no longer be required to have a college degree, according to people familiar with the plan who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe it. The shift comes as the agency anticipates losing more than 5,000 employees by September, largely as a result of agents, analysts and others taking severance or early retirement packages offered by the Trump administration to try to reduce the budget.


 
Military leadership shouldn't have let it het to this point because in typical military fashion they're using a sledge hammer on a finishing nail.

Except that it is not "military" leadership that is imposing this new emphasis on standards in the US military. It is one(?) politician - a politician with a questionable history of misogyny, racism, alt-right leanings and (reportedly) a lacklustre personal, military career. One of the difficulties in judging the extent of "beardos" and "fatties" is that many from this side of the (military) border have our opinions coloured by the more relaxed grooming, fitness and religious accommodation policies in the CAF. Any Canadian Tom, Dick or Harriet can forego shaving or look like (in the self-description of a Canadian Army Commander 30 years ago) "ten pounds of $#@& in a five pound bag". Those in uniform south of the border would mostly have required a medical or religious exemption to grow a beard and while the military waistlines have expanded generally in conjunction with the greater expansion in the civilian population, the "standards" had not significantly changed; they simply applied some allowable accommodation in order to recruit and/or retain needed pers.
 
Except that it is not "military" leadership that is imposing this new emphasis on standards in the US military. It is one(?) politician - a politician with a questionable history of misogyny, racism, alt-right leanings and (reportedly) a lacklustre personal, military career.

That's Hegseth, yes. Military leadership shouldn't have stopped emphasizing standards.
 
Then we can recruit on r/canada. They're ready to fight the US over there.
I guarantee you people on r/canada are not the fit you're looking for.
Maybe even 1.
True. And yet they are very, very effective at what they do, fitness be damned.
Of course not. You views are a great addition to the collective here. Please send away.
I hope you didn't regret saying that.
Yes.

They're going to lose a lot of great female soldiers over this. Lots of male soldiers too.
Yeah, I didn't even touch on this enough. Male standards for female soldiers. Brilliant, just ban women outright then Pete.
Military leadership shouldn't have let it het to this point because in typical military fashion they're using a sledge hammer on a finishing nail.
True. but at the end of the day, you still blame the one with the sledge hammer. There is still blame to go around, but this response is asinine
 
Yeah, I didn't even touch on this enough. Male standards for female soldiers. Brilliant, just ban women outright then Pete.
It's a double edged sword when you have US law makers saying women are just as string SD men, or arguing for transwomen to play on women's teams. A woman is a woman etc..

Canada has one fitness standard that doesn't discriminate between sex and age. Arguably the FORCE standard is lower than the US fitness test for males.
True. but at the end of the day, you still blame the one with the sledge hammer. There is still blame to go around, but this response is asinine
There's a standard and military leaders let it slip. In their possible defence that could have been direction by the previous parties in power.
 
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