• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

It’s cool that you want to go to war in Spitfires & Shermans again.

Well, if you ever get a chance to check out modern factories and talk to the people there you get pretty confident in the capabilities of a modern, well resourced and managed national industrial base.

The needs of the CAF would be a rounding error in the annual production rates of current 'Peace Time' capabilities.

For example North American industry produced over 15 million vehicles, of all kinds, last year. And as for Canada:

  • 1.294 million vehicles were produced in Canada in 2024.
  • Canada is the 11th leading vehicle producer in the world.
  • Canada contributes approximately 8% of all vehicles produced in North America.
 
You hit the nail a bit with Job protection, and the pay system. It is really hard to tell a person they are deploying or we need you to deploy if their pay check doesnt show up on time. Mortgage and car loans only give so much forgiveness before they really want their money. The excuse I am waiting for my pay check just does not cut it. Nor does Taking the time off your Civilian work only to have the tasking canceled.
Or, as happened to a PRes friend, getting ready for a deployment, making all the arrangements with his employer, only to be told the start day was going to be flexible and the deployment may run longer. How is an employee who wants to remain and employee supposed to deal with that. Having stronger employment protection won't compensate for vague planning.
 
Not when the production lines get properly rolling you can't...

How Canadian Factories Fueled the Allied Victory​


By the end of the war, Canada’s war effort and manufacturing had reached a new level of production. The following numbers come from the Globe and Mail’s June 12th 1943 chart showcasing one week’s worth of wartime production from Canadian factories. This work was done by over 900,000 Canadian workers, male and female working all over the country. They made at least 6 vessels, 80 aircraft, 4000 motor vehicles, 450 armoured fighting vehicles, 940 heavy guns, 13,000 smaller guns, 525,000 artillery shells, 25 million cartridges, 10,000 tons of explosives and $4 million dollars worth of communication equipment and instruments.[2]


A lot of those ships were fairly simple and built at multiple Great Lakes shipyards; most of which no longer exist (Im pretty sure we built more than six).
Much of our heavy manufacturing - what's left of it - is foreign-owned.
All of our production facilities were immune from attack.

I think that depends on how exquisite a build you want.
A reasonable level of survivability would be nice.
 
Well, if you ever get a chance to check out modern factories and talk to the people there you get pretty confident in the capabilities of a modern, well resourced and managed national industrial base.

The needs of the CAF would be a rounding error in the annual production rates of current 'Peace Time' capabilities.
I have been to many factories. If you think there is capacity to produce replacement modern tanks faster than replacement crews, then the sales reps have you snowed.
 
A lot of those ships were fairly simple and built at multiple Great Lakes shipyards; most of which no longer exist (Im pretty sure we built more than six).
Much of our heavy manufacturing - what's left of it - is foreign-owned.
All of our production facilities were immune from attack.


A reasonable level of survivability would be nice.

As has been mentioned on the Canadian Tanks thread Oryx is making it painfully obvious that all vehicles are being killed in large numbers regardless of their relative quality.

My uneducated guess is that tactics, training and procedures have a lot more relevance to survival than mechanical design.
 
Support for defence spending as a priority is about where it has always been. Way down the list. If Carney makes defence spending a plank and heads into an election with that, he’s going to be in deep trouble.
On the other hand, I don’t see how he can avoid it. I’m kind of concerned we are looking at a general income tax increase.

Source: Nanos poll finds Canadians divided on budget priorities

7LBEOWSP7JB2BA4WXHY7S6CL5Y.png
 
Support for defence spending as a priority is about where it has always been. Way down the list. If Carney makes defence spending a plank and heads into an election with that, he’s going to be in deep trouble.
On the other hand, I don’t see how he can avoid it. I’m kind of concerned we are looking at a general income tax increase.

Source: Nanos poll finds Canadians divided on budget priorities

7LBEOWSP7JB2BA4WXHY7S6CL5Y.png
Depends how much of that spending creates jobs here.
 
Look where creating jobs sits on that poll.

Just barely above defence. It makes you wonder who exactly was polled….
 
Yes I would have though cost of living would be #1.

Nanos showing Liberal bias again.

Edit: Abacus might not have had defence as an option. Conservatives bias!
 
Some fortune telling...


There have been several pre-budget announcements, as far back as June that include but are not limited to:

  • $9 billion on defence to be spent by the end of March.
  • $13 billion (initially) for the Build Canada Homes agency.
  • $2 billion for small nuclear reactors at Darlington, Ont.
  • $5 billion for a new Strategic Response Fund.
  • $3.6 billion over three years for temporary EI measures due to tariff uncertainty.
  • $1.8 billion to increase federal policing capacity.
  • $370 million for a new biofuel production incentive.
  • $77 million over four years to the CRA for trucking industry non-compliance.
  • $660.5 million over five years for gender equality and safety (including new RCMP hires).
  • $97 million over five years to create a Foreign Credential Recognition Action Fund.
  • $450 million over three years for a workers’ reskilling package.
Of course, there will be a number of measures, investments, tax credits and the like that will only be revealed on budget day.

Clearly a big increase in defence spending will be part of Tuesday’s budget, with Canada pledging to reach NATO’s target of two per cent of GDP spending by March 31 and 3.5 per cent of GDP on core defence requirements by 2035.


 
Support for defence spending as a priority is about where it has always been. Way down the list. If Carney makes defence spending a plank and heads into an election with that, he’s going to be in deep trouble.
On the other hand, I don’t see how he can avoid it. I’m kind of concerned we are looking at a general income tax increase.

Source: Nanos poll finds Canadians divided on budget priorities

7LBEOWSP7JB2BA4WXHY7S6CL5Y.png

I've been saying exactly this for a while. Hard choices are coming.
 
Yes I would have though cost of living would be #1.

Nanos showing Liberal bias again.

Edit: Abacus might not have had defence as an option. Conservatives bias!
The Conservatives aren’t exactly defence oriented either. Lots of talk, lack of deeds (by numbers the Liberals have actually contributed more per capita in the last 40 years).

We don’t have a truly pro-military party in Canada, no one has been at 2% GDP since the 80s.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ytz
Ill pass on the Tommy Cooker thanks lol. We still have a regimental shot called a Hatcher - a shooter of burning Sambuca that resembles the cookoff of Sherman tanks from the war.
What is it with flaming liquors? The Camerons in Winnipeg did flaming Drambuie. That's not bad and we did those in the artillery, but the Camerons had you sing a stupid little ditty first so that the flame heated the glass rim to the melting point. They almost did in a young subbie with that.
For example North American industry produced over 15 million vehicles, of all kinds, last year. And as for Canada:

  • 1.294 million vehicles were produced in Canada in 2024.
  • Canada is the 11th leading vehicle producer in the world.
  • Canada contributes approximately 8% of all vehicles produced in North America.
That's not far off from a per capita par.

🍻
 
Well, if you ever get a chance to check out modern factories and talk to the people there you get pretty confident in the capabilities of a modern, well resourced and managed national industrial base.

The needs of the CAF would be a rounding error in the annual production rates of current 'Peace Time' capabilities.

For example North American industry produced over 15 million vehicles, of all kinds, last year. And as for Canada:

  • 1.294 million vehicles were produced in Canada in 2024.
  • Canada is the 11th leading vehicle producer in the world.
  • Canada contributes approximately 8% of all vehicles produced in North America.

So we'll end up using what is available?
 
I have been to many factories. If you think there is capacity to produce replacement modern tanks faster than replacement crews, then the sales reps have you snowed.
Depends on what you would consider a replacement crew. Basic Training through to operating a tank.
Then if you were to look at the full manufacturing capacity of Canadian industry, I think you are selling them short.
 
Ill pass on the Tommy Cooker thanks lol. We still have a regimental shot called a Hatcher - a shooter of burning Sambuca that resembles the cookoff of Sherman tanks from the war.
Back in the 70's the Garry's Jr. Ranks had the same as above but for some reason or tother was called a flaming arsehole .
Cavalry....the epitome of class .😉
 
I haven’t seen a specific thread on Golden Dome or whatever we may be up to for Continental Ground Based Interception, sometimes also referred to as IAMDS.

There’s a decent Kathyrne Bigelow flick on Netflix titled House of Dynamite. It’s worth a watch, and if you do view the movie take note of the significant infrastructure and layers of systems, personnel, roles and responsibilities just in the GBI EKS of NorthCom, and its integration, touch points with NORAD and the MDA. O If our objective is to participate or heaven forbid develop such a system on a stand alone basis, the amount of effort, cost, coordination and above all — seriousness —- makes this a huge game changer for Canada. It seems certain this just won’t be a case of standing up a special air defence regiment, but rather an entire and very separate command or perhaps even branch if service (Army, Navy, Air Force, Space, Missile Defence?).

“NORAD's primary role in relation to the GBI system is providing aerospace warningand attack assessment. NORAD uses a global network of sensors, including satellites and ground-based radar, to detect and track incoming ballistic missile threats and provide early warning to the governments of Canada and the United States.​
However, NORAD does not have operational command and control of the GBI interceptors themselves. The GMD system is administered by the U.S. Missile Defense Agency, and the interceptors (located in Alaska and California) are under the command authority of U.S. Northern Command (USNORTHCOM). The Commander of NORAD also serves as the Commander of USNORTHCOM, ensuring close coordination, but the command authorities are technically separate for the GMD system.”​

I just can’t imagine Canada simply plugging a GBI missile regiment into NorthCOM and then leaving the rest to the USMDA. This is not a BOMARC missile type of deployment such as we had with NORAD in 64-73. So we stand up our own MDA? The USMDA enjoys sensor and intelligence fusion including but also far beyond what NORAD provides. I’m not sure the US will let us inside that type of room with any sort if functional access or input. On the other hand, there is a decent prospect the US might pull out of NORAD and leave us hanging if Canada doesn’t sign on to Golden Dome.

A bit more detailed description of the problem: Golden Dome and Canada: The “New” Age of Integrated Air and Missile Defence | CDA Institute

“Canada has the option of refusing to be part of Golden Dome which would result in the United States deploying OTHR and land-based defeat capabilities near the CANUS border, violating Canadian airspace as necessary. Nancy Teeple reviewed some of the costs and lost opportunities in a 2020 analysis related to only ballistic missile defence but her warnings are worth revisiting including reputational considerations and especially the financial costs of going it alone. The United States might also consider walking away from NORAD insisting Golden Dome would take over the warning and defeat functions of NORAD but this unilateral approach would fly in the face of the original logic that led to the creation of NORAD in 1957”​
“The Canadian IAMD door was opened a crack in Our North Strong and Free (ONSAF) but the announcement by Minister of Defence McGuinty announcing that Canada “has removed all restrictions on air and missile defence of Canada” on 16 July 2025 opens it widely for Canadian-US negotiations.”​
“IAMD is the future for all militaries and Canada is implicated already as a member of NATO and NORAD. The notion that Canada is “fireproof” or covered by US systems is specious. Canada needs national IAMD ideally linked with Golden Dome. Canada can no longer be protected by platforms operational in only one domain for specific threats.”​


Mods feel free to move to another thread or start a new one.
 
Back
Top