2025 U.S. - Venezuela conflict

[KevinB]

True but.... that's never stopped anyone from "making it up" when it suits them....

View attachment 96995

Except Iraq did have Chem and Bio weapons.
As well as yellowcake Uranium and equipment to make enrichment facilities.

Iraq is a bad example, as there was a UN resolution to authorize force if Sadam didn’t turn over his weapons (and he had used Chemical weapons on the Iranians, Kurds and others.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Except Iraq did have Chem and Bio weapons.
As well as yellowcake Uranium and equipment to make enrichment facilities.

Iraq is a bad example, as there was a UN resolution to authorize force if Sadam didn’t turn over his weapons (and he had used Chemical weapons on the Iranians, Kurds and others.

Kevin, you know it was not that black and white. Not that Saddam didn't have it coming ... but the story is a little more grayish.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Except Iraq did have Chem and Bio weapons.
As well as yellowcake Uranium and equipment to make enrichment facilities.

Iraq is a bad example, as there was a UN resolution to authorize force if Sadam didn’t turn over his weapons (and he had used Chemical weapons on the Iranians, Kurds and others.

Weapons the Americans gave them...

"We know they have weapons!".... "because eh we gave them the weapons"

@FJAG pretty much hit the nail on the head WRT Venezuela. It's all about that black gold:

 

[KevinB]

Weapons the Americans gave them...

And French and Germans and…
I’m also curious where the yellowcake came from.
It went to Canada to be destroyed - but I missed China on the blame list for the origin.

"We know they have weapons!".... "because eh we gave them the weapons"

Well we also decide to let a lot of those weapons go to Syria, that turned out so well right? I mean if we caught some of it, some major corporations would be on the hook for sanctions violations and much much worse.

@FJAG pretty much hit the nail on the head WRT Venezuela. It's all about that black gold:

View attachment 96996

Oh no disagreement there.
My point is that Iraq isn’t a good comparison as there was pre-existing authority from the UN for Military force.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

And French and Germans and…
I’m also curious where the yellowcake came from.
It went to Canada to be destroyed - but I missed China on the blame list for the origin.

Gerald Bull also had his fingers in there. A Canadian of international acclaim, not so well known in these parts!

Well we also decide to let a lot of those weapons go to Syria, that turned out so well right? I mean if we caught some of it, some major corporations would be on the hook for sanctions violations and much much worse.



Oh no disagreement there.
My point is that Iraq isn’t a good comparison as there was pre-existing authority from the UN for Military force.

I don't disagree @KevinB

My point is really that Customary International Law is a bit of a joke. Everyone violates the law when and where it suits them.

Venezuela royally screwed Canada when they had their colour revolution so I think this is a fitting just-due for that Regime. The Chavez gang also purged PDVSA, which was a world class company 25 years ago.

 

[lenaitch]

That's a lie you've been taught. IMHO.

Just like violence never solves problems.

No, it's something I honestly believe.

Summary capital punishment is something decent societies don't do, whether it's the high seas or a street in downtown Halifax.

Picking off a few poor folks in open boats is easier than bombing Mexico or boarding Chinese ships, which are the source of most fentanyl coming into the US.

My guess: mostly the oil. Partly to stop shadow fleet exports to China; partly to hand over to some US producers.

I suspect you are right. If US companies owned the Venezuelan wells I doubt he would really care.

 

[lenaitch]

**

 

[Halifax Tar]

No, it's something I honestly believe.

Summary capital punishment is something decent societies don't do, whether it's the high seas or a street in downtown Halifax.

Sure we do. How many poor illiterate farmers did we introduce to Allah in Afg, for simply standing near a bad guy or doing their bidding ?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think the issue here is that its Trump issuing the orders.

Remember this guy:

Obama Drone Strikes

Civilian casualties from the United States drone strikes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[PrairieFella]

Gerald Bull also had his fingers in there. A Canadian of international acclaim, not so well known in these parts!

I don't disagree @KevinB

My point is really that Customary International Law is a bit of a joke. Everyone violates the law when and where it suits them.

Venezuela royally screwed Canada when they had their colour revolution so I think this is a fitting just-due for that Regime. The Chavez gang also purged PDVSA, which was a world class company 25 years ago.

How did venezuela screw us?

 

[Haggis]

Picking off a few poor folks in open boats is easier than bombing Mexico or boarding Chinese ships, which are the source of most fentanyl coming into the US.

It's coming from Canada. Don't challenge the narrative.

 

[PrairieFella]

It's coming from Canada. Don't challenge the narrative.

I think this factor is missing from this thread at the moment. Whats to stop the Americans from applying this use of force on any of their borders now? They could use the same excuse as these boats and theyve shown they dont give a shit about the casualties or collateral. Normalizing extrajudicial killings is a slippery slope and should be opposed wholesale.

 

[Rifleman62]

Even if the USA topples the Venezuelan government the drug business is too luckertive to be stopped permanently.

It's the oil just like business with Russia for the well connected.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

How did venezuela screw us?

It's basically ancient history now because it's been over 20 years...

Basically, before PDVSA was taken over by the Chavez Govt, they signed a bunch of deals with Governments around the World, including ours, to supply a patented type of oil they developed, called Orimulsion. It was to be used in generating stations in Eastern Canada and globally to provide an alternative fuel source to coal and conventional fuel oil.

Chavez took over PDVSA, reneged on all the contracts, and when the employees protested, he had them all fired and completely gutted the state oil company, which was a World Class company.

The Chavez Govt cost us $10s of billions of dollars after we had spent $$$billions converting our plants to run their fuel.

He also politicized PDVSA and turned what was a crown jewel in to a big hulking mess.

Calling 18,000 Venezuelan workers to oilsands

Alberta college targets thousands of skilled oil workers laid off after labour strife in Venezuela

www.hrreporter.com

BITÚMENES ORINOCO v. NEW BRUNSWICK POWER HOLDING CORP, 05 Civ. 9485 (LAP). | S.D.N.Y., Judgment, Law, casemine.com

Get free access to the complete judgment in BITÚMENES ORINOCO v. NEW BRUNSWICK POWER HOLDING CORP on CaseMine.

www.casemine.com

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Gerald Bull also had his fingers in there. A Canadian of international acclaim, not so well known in these parts!

Unfortunately, he got the attention of the wrong people and the Mossad assassinated him.

 

[McG]

I'm not a lawyer, judge or politician. But IMHO when someone is engaged in drug running and cartel activities that's an occasion when I don't care about them being put down immediately.

Me too, drug traffickers are scum and we should be giving them the exact same treatment we give pirates.

I guess “innocent until proven guilty” is just a slogan to suppress conversation about in-group members accused of something, but it’s nothing at all when it comes to killing strangers in distant lands?

 

[Quirky]

Whats to stop the Americans from applying this use of force on any of their borders now?

I wouldn't be surprised if Mexican drug gangs eventually get the same Venezuela treatment. To answer your question, nothing can stop the Americans from using force as they deem necessary to stop the flow of drugs into their country. Whether you agree with it or not, they will act out of their own best interest. Mexican and Canadian militaries are powerless.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I guess “innocent until proven guilty” is just a slogan to suppress conversation about in-group members accused of something, but it’s nothing at all when it comes to killing strangers in distant lands?

How many Afghan farmers did we kill without being convicted of anything ? How many truly innocent people did Obama kill with his record setting drone strike campaign ?

Again we've been doing this for decades, and no one cared until it was Trump giving the orders. Now the sky is falling.

And I truly don't care. You can't fight the war on drugs like some honorable European campaign from the 1800s with tea times and cucumber sandwiches. These are bad mother f**kers and they can only be dealt with by use of violence.

 

[KevinB]

How many Afghan farmers did we kill without being convicted of anything ? How many truly innocent people did Obama kill with his record setting drone strike campaign ?

No disagreement there.

Again we've been doing this for decades, and no one cared until it was Trump giving the orders. Now the sky is falling.

I pointed out some of the differences before.
But Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, and Libya where known conflict zones.

And I truly don't care. You can't fight the war on drugs like some honorable European campaign from the 1800s with tea times and cucumber sandwiches. These are bad mother f**kers and they can only be dealt with by use of violence.

Then use our resources and kill off a slew of the top leadership.

Playing whack-a-mole with the bottom of the food chain is gratifying in the short term, but doesn’t do anything for the long term.

I am all for making Drug Cartels endangered species— but as many of us know, the front line ‘workers’ aren’t the ones we need to kill. We can kill hundreds daily and they will be replaced.

Napalm an entire cartel leadership every day for a week, and well I think some may get the idea that having their family roasted alive isn’t worth the perks.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No disagreement there.

I pointed out some of the differences before.
But Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, and Libya where known conflict zones.

SA is a conflict zone when it comes to drug cartels. They aren't some benevolent Robin Hood organizations.

Then use our resources and kill off a slew of the top leadership.

Playing whack-a-mole with the bottom of the food chain is gratifying in the short term, but doesn’t do anything for the long term.

I am all for making Drug Cartels endangered species— but as many of us know, the front line ‘workers’ aren’t the ones we need to kill. We can kill hundreds daily and they will be replaced.

Napalm an entire cartel leadership every day for a week, and well I think some may get the idea that having their family roasted alive isn’t worth the perks.

Kill their supply lines, starve them of resources, then send them all back to their maker.

Even better, weaken them to the point their populace will rise up and do the last part for you.