Canadian River Class Destroyer Megathread

[Kirkhill]

Vinča symbols - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

6000 years of inscribing knowledge for posterity and some idiots still see it as a threat.
Book burners and statue topplers deserve special treatment.

 

[Lumber]

WHY?

The rationale was somewhat rational. They wanted to do away lengthy and boring PowerPoint presentations that were never being updated, and they wanted to adopt "Alternate instructional Techniques" (AIT) and "performance based training". The plan was that, instead of sitting through an hour long PowerPoint, students would instead read relevant parts of the actual references, then participate in some kind of "Avance instructional" activity. Now, having done AIT training, I actually believe in the merits of AIT and performance based training. The problem was that the staff assigned to do these conversations were not well versed in these concepts, were in many cases very junior, and they were also given extremely tight deadlines to name these changes. Needless to say, they did NOT get it right. Now the whole "delete all power points" is anecdotal in that I've never seen a written copy of such an order. However, given the number people have told me it's true, and the fact that I can't find any of these older presentations, I believes it's true. And it was useful stuff! AIT/CFITES doesn't say you CANT use PowerPoint, just that there's is a time and place and type rof learning thats appropriate for it. Learning basic caps and lims is a perfect example. I really could use the slide deck on ESSM that I was presented when I was taught about the ESSM back in 2013/14. Nope; gone.

The loss of the CFNOS drive is even more infuriating. A few years after all this, I was given a task that required me to have access to the CFNOS drive, which was visible on the network but locked. A year after THAT, I was asked to expand upon the work I'd done, and so went and asked for access again. I couldn't see the drive on the network anymore, so I assumed it was now "hidden". Nope. Turns out shortly after my first project they transferred the whole drive to an external hard drive, then one year later cleared out that external drive under the justification of "RCN Information retention policies". Like, fuck dude, that hard drive was taking up 24 square inches of shelf space. You couldn't just let it sit there and collect dust? Luckily when I had first done the project I had copied over everything I needed to my personal drive and just wanted to do an extra scrub to see if I missed anything, but fuck , what about other people who might need something on there?

 

[dapaterson]

Peak NWO energy there - "If I don't understand it, it can't be important enough to keep around".

 

[NavyShooter]

My 3D printed version of the Type 26 is starting to look the part.

Still needs some more putty on some seams and more sanding, but considering how it started, she's looking OK.

 

[Navy_Pete]

A long-held senior NWO desire to destroy the ‘Stoker Mafia’.
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Well, there’s likely a lot more to it than that since the short-sighted training material purge affected more than Mar Eng, but that’s the general consensus of my conspiracy theory peers who saw it all happen.

Well, they actually said 'fuck the stoker mafia' during one of the decision briefs, so not really a theory. The fact that they knee capped the RCN for the next 10 years, and is actively impacting the delivery of RCD's combat recoverability is kind of a nice bit of karma, if they could be bothered to acknowledge how badly someone messed up.

It was actually almost immediately obvious, but had to wait 3-4 years until some key retirements, and still about 5 years behind where it needs to be for RCD to hit IOC in reality.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Well, they actually said 'fuck the stoker mafia' during one of the decision briefs, so not really a theory. The fact that they knee capped the RCN for the next 10 years, and is actively impacting the delivery of RCD's combat recoverability is kind of a nice bit of karma, if they could be bothered to acknowledge how badly someone messed up.

It was actually almost immediately obvious, but had to wait 3-4 years until some key retirements, and still about 5 years behind where it needs to be for RCD to hit IOC in reality.

You mean Topshee couldn't tear a strip off the appropriate people, like the chatter going around that he did at SS, and just get them fired or stationed permanently at Alert for the rest of their career?

 

[Navy_Pete]

You mean Topshee couldn't tear a strip off the appropriate people, like the chatter going around that he did at SS, and just get them fired or stationed permanently at Alert for the rest of their career?

I'm not sure what the chatter was, but this all predated Topshee by who knows how many CRCNs now (7, 8?), and I think the environmental L1s have far less actual influence over purple functions than they think.

As an aside, surprised there aren't more major scandals with people doing things about punishment postings. If someone has already tried to ruin your career, really nothing to lose, so seems like opportunities for lots of petty revenge between complaints to the various ombudsmen, abuse of power complaints, going to your MPs, news papers etc. And if you are really petty, for $5 a submission you can submit a daily ATI on their work if you want.

 

[Cloud Cover]

My 3D printed version of the Type 26 is starting to look the part.

Still needs some more putty on some seams and more sanding, but considering how it started, she's looking OK.

Well you’re further ahead than Irving/ HSY.

 

[dapaterson]

I'm not sure what the chatter was, but this all predated Topshee by who knows how many CRCNs now (7, 8?), and I think the environmental L1s have far less actual influence over purple functions than they think.

As an aside, surprised there aren't more major scandals with people doing things about punishment postings. If someone has already tried to ruin your career, really nothing to lose, so seems like opportunities for lots of petty revenge between complaints to the various ombudsmen, abuse of power complaints, going to your MPs, news papers etc. And if you are really petty, for $5 a submission you can submit a daily ATI on their work if you want.

My retirement entertainment budget includes $5 a week, every week, for ATI requests.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

That's a lot of entertainment you'll get for a mere five bucks.

 

[dapaterson]

That's a lot of entertainment you'll get for a mere five bucks.

It's been more fun when you know the people who will have to reply.

 

[Baz]

My retirement entertainment budget includes $5 a week, every week, for ATI requests.

I know someone is supposedly already doing that… you should team up!

 

[Navy_Pete]

It's been more fun when you know the people who will have to reply.

It's even funnier when it doesn't actually get to them, and instead goes to a completely different L1.

 

[dapaterson]

It's even funnier when it doesn't actually get to them, and instead goes to a completely different L1.

This guy ATIPs

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm not sure what the chatter was, but this all predated Topshee by who knows how many CRCNs now (7, 8?), and I think the environmental L1s have far less actual influence over purple functions than they think.

This is something the L1s really dont understand. And the retirement of the STW trade and their attempt at creating a new food services trade showed that for the RCN.

I had a C1 tell me, about 4 years ago, the RCN was going to amalgamate all the Log Trades too... How you get to C1 with that little understanding of the institution is beyond me. They are still around too...

 

[Furniture]

I had a C1 tell me, about 4 years ago, the RCN was going to amalgamate all the Log Trades too... How you get to C1 with that little understanding of the institution is beyond me. They are still around too...

Most people outside the purple trades know little about the purple trades, because they operate in a different CAF reality.

My first couple of years in Ottawa were pretty eye opening, and I had worked in all three elements by that time. This is why I am a firm believer that all MWO/CPO 2s and up should have to do some time in Ottawa at a HQ.

 

[Greene]

There's an article today from someone who can't be quoted here, but the reference for his article is the US Federal Register. Apparently Canada has requested the Tactical Tomahawk Weapon Control System for the River Class. This seems to finally be confirmation that the RCDs will be able to fire Tomahawks, although there's no mention of the missiles themselves.

The other significant item in the notice is the AN/WSN-12 Inertial Navigation System. It sounds like this is a new navigation system for GPS-denied environments. The notice also talks about the SLQ-32, but I think that info came out last year.

It's good to see the new ships getting cutting-edge tech.

 

[FSTO]

Is it great to see that the F-35 has taken up all the oxygen for defence procurement while the RCD and other navy programs continue to stealthy advance without the general public having a clue?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Is it great to see that the F-35 has taken up all the oxygen for defence procurement while the RCD and other navy programs continue to stealthy advance without the general public having a clue?

No loud noises and no sudden movements lol

 

[Baz]

A Facebook rebuttal to an article that cannot be posted here. It seems to do a good job explaining why our Type-26s have AEGIS and not CMS-330.

So yesterday I published in its entirety a ****** ******* Article by ***** ******** on the Canadian Surface Combatant. He often reports on this project. There are lots of things wrong with this article and if you read what he posts on a regular basis its very clear about his style and substance of reporting. Here is an analysis of what he wrote taking into account some of the responses posted on here to the article.
Every few months, the ****** ******* dusts off the same template: Take a routine defence update, Strip out all technical context, Add political melodrama, Declare a crisis. This latest instalment is no different. For clarity these decisions were made long before our trade issues and Donald Trump was in office.
"The “Tripled Cost” Headline, Procurement for People Who Don’t Understand Procurement"
The article claims the FMS (foreign military sales) order “almost tripled.”
Here’s what actually happened: Canada added more equipment.
The U.S. updated the maximum possible FMS value. This is literally how every FMS notice works.
Calling this a scandal is like ordering a pizza, adding wings, and then yelling that the “pizza industry gouged you.”
Bureaucratic ceiling value ≠ money spent. But that nuance doesn’t make page clicks.
"The Magical $80B Number and $26B Number Appears (Again)"
The $80B total program cost, which includes 40 years of inflation, spares, training, infrastructure, personnel, and project management is dumped into the paragraph like it’s directly linked to that FMS update.
The 26B number that they like quoting was a placeholder stated even before the type and capability of the platform was even selected but dropped into a article with no context creates rage.
It’s a rhetorical sleight of hand: correct numbers used to create incorrect impressions. Classic tactic.
"The Article Veers Into “U.S. Hostility” Fan Fiction"
Without warning, we are told: The U.S. is “increasingly hostile.” Trump wants us as the 51st state. Therefore, Canada choosing Aegis is apparently dangerous. What does any of this have to do with the technical requirements of a modern BMD-capable destroyer? Nothing.
Unless the goal is to turn a combat system integration story into political theatre. Which… is exactly what’s happening.
"The “Full U.S. Control” Claim Is Technically Absurd"
The article implies that installing Aegis hands Canada’s sovereign command of the vessel to Washington. This is nonsense. Japan uses Aegis. South Korea uses Aegis. Spain uses Aegis. Norway uses Aegis. Australia uses Aegis. Not one of these countries is being remote controlled from the Pentagon.
Aegis baselines are owned, configured, and operated nationally.
Suggesting otherwise is either ignorance or deliberate misdirection.
"Mark Norman’s Comments Are Cherry Picked Into a Conspiracy Theory"
Norman raised legitimate concerns about sovereignty of software and long term flexibility. That is a real debate and worth having.
But the article welds his words onto a narrative about:
U.S. political hostility, Canadian military leaders being “too close” to Americans, and a supposedly “less capable” system. None of those are arguments Norman made.
That is the journalist using Norman’s credibility as a prop.
"CMS-330 vs Aegis: The Article Refuses to Admit They’re Not Interchangeable"
CMS-330 is a good Canadian system widely exported, reliable, cost effective. I'll let you all in on a little secret CMS-330 is after the hull number of HMCS Halifax, a frigate, its a frigate system.
But CMS-330 is not a full spectrum AAW/BMD combat system. It is not designed for ballistic missile tracking, engagement coordination, or integration with SPY-7 and SM class weapons.
Trying to frame this as “we had a great Canadian system but DND betrayed Canada” is a cartoon version of the real technical debate.
You don’t put a minivan dashboard in an F-35. You don’t bolt CMS-330 onto a destroyer intended to operate in the same environment as Burkes and Type 26 variants equipped for BMD.
Not to mention Lockheed Martin Canada manages the CMS-330 and is the same company managing the Aegis. The CMS-330 in the form of the Combat interface will indeed be in the RCD.
The “DND Is Secretive” Trope Shows Up Right on Cue"
Every Ottawa Citizen article ends with the predictable flourish:
DND won’t comment, Industry is upset, Canadians are kept in the dark.
The reality?
DND regularly briefs industry, publishes project updates, appears before committees, and engages with media. But those details get buried because “shadowy government hides scandal” is a better narrative hook.
"What This Article Really Is"
It’s not reporting. It’s not analysis. It’s barely even opinion. It’s a political narrative wrapped in a thin layer of defence jargon:
America bad, DND incompetent, Navy disloyal, Canadian industry victimized, Program collapsing, Taxpayers gouged. The formula never changes. Because for some outlets, the story is more important than the truth.

Royal Canadian Navy Today and Yesterdays Post, 05 Dec 2025