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That's why a number of Muslim parents in Ontario send their kids to catholic school.
Religion in Schools (split fm Islamic Terrorism)
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OldSolduer
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That is a very interesting point. That I did not know.
IKnowNothing
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I've heard of it happening for three very different reasons - some Muslim parents wanting to avoid "woke" public school teachings and finding less to "unteach" morally at home from a Catholic education, some just wanting (hilariously naively) to avoid the sex, drugs, and hedonism of public schools, some wanting to avoid the fractured and cliquey entrenched diaspora groups at public schools so their kids integrate better
You heard similar Jarn?
OldSolduer
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Did you not mean Catholic schools?
HavokFour
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The catchment system (where I am) plays a part. Sometimes a Catholic board school is the only school in an area or the public one is entirely packed, portapacks and all.
IKnowNothing
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Hence (hilariously naively)Did you not mean Catholic schools?
as has been written above, the public system was based upon the Anglican/protestant beliefs until relatively recent. Whether the teachers actually went to church, or believed them or not was actually irrelevant. Those were the moral standards and in that respect there was little difference between the standards of the two boards. In our frantic attempts to ensure that God no longer has a place in our society we threw away most of our bedrock beliefs in exchange for a floating system that believes nothing. The Catholic system then became the bedrock. With its standards now being eroded people are now left with shelling out for a private school or home schooling which has grown by leaps and bounds over the last two decades.
My own guess as to where this is going will be more and more families that care about their kids opting out of both public systems until or unless the school boards can somehow make a change. My proof: 7 teachers on the public system. They talk a lot.
HavokFour
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IKnowNothing
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One can teach what amounts to core Christian morality- the bedrock- without any discussion of scripture or the divine.
Harder to justify contradictory hardline dogma though.
OldSolduer
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The basic premise of Christianity is "don't be a dick and try to be the best person you can be. Give to the poor." and things like that.
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we have avoided some of this in my family by homeschooling about 50% of the time lol
maybe Ontario, Alberta and Sask left with religious schooling
I think Newfoundland and Quebec dumped them in the 90s
maybe Ontario, Alberta and Sask left with religious schooling
I think Newfoundland and Quebec dumped them in the 90s
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@ IKnow
Can I refer you to the Manitoba Schools Question as a starting point?
en.wikipedia.org
The background to the issue was, on one side the reintroduction of Catholicism into Briish lands in the 1840s and, on the other side, Riel's Rebellions, the Fenians and the assassination of Darcy McGee.
In 1763 the Brits decided to let the French stay and keep their lands, their language and their religion. They had tried the alternate solution in Scotland and Acadia recently and that hadn't worked out so well. It was easier to go along to get along. But they did insist that there be no new priests, that the existing priests swear allegiance to the Crown and that the Jesuits were troublesome and should be ejected. The Pope and most of the Catholic monarchs agreed and suppressed the Jesuits after 1773.
The problem there was that the priests were responsible for education. So the education system suffered.
Concurrently, the British world was opening up education to the masses. Schools were becoming more common. In Scotland they were mandatory and truancy was punished. Libraries opened up. NIght schools became common. Trades colleges opened. Universities started teaching STEM courses to anyone with a penny.
This was at odds with the Papacy's desire to protect the flock. The difference was put down on paper by a series of encyclicals or bulls ostensibly aimed at the Masons but actually criticizing Anglo-Saxon liberalism.
The Anglo-Saxon Roman division was patched up in stages.
The Brits let the Quebecers keep their church and language in 1763.
They let the Quebecers take public office with the Quebec Act of 1774.
They let the Catholics of Ireland and then England take public office by affirming that they were loyal to the Crown and not the Papacy.
(This was to the chagrin of the dissenters I referred to above who were still not allowed public office resulting in what the Establishment referred to as Anti-Catholic riots - they weren't anti-Catholic so much as anti-Government).
Accommodation sped up with the French Revolution. The British Establishment gave shelter to the French Establishment that were getting their heads lopped off. This included giving shelter to French priests.
The French priests found a ready audience in Ireland. Many of the Irish had been going to France and Belgium, particularly Douai, for their advanced education. So had the English Catholics. This countered the flow of French protestants that had been coming to England from the 1700s to get shelter from Louis XIII, XIV, XV and XVI.
Again the working condition was that the priests acknowledge the Crown and repudiate the doctrine of Papal Infallibility.
With that stipulation the priests were allowed to preach in England, Wales and Ireland. Their introduction is coincidental with the Anglican church becoming less Methodist and more Catholic, giving up pub songs for traditional services. Following on from that the Pope felt comfortable enough to reintroduce a papal hierarchy of bishops into England in parallel to the Church of England. That happened on 29 Sept 1850.
It was during this period of reconciliation that the Oblates arrived in Canada. They arrived in 1841. They were allowed in partly to cover off the education of Quebecers.
Britain continued its public education expansion. In Canada Egerton Ryerson was at the forefront of that. But the Papacy was adamant that they define a good family, a good Catholic and a good education for their flock. They went so far as to excommunicate anyone who had anything to do with the secular public schools. To compensate the Oblates were admitted to offer an alternative for the French parishes.
The separation was not helped by papal encyclicals denouncing liberalism, modernism and toleration and promoting corporatism as an alternative to both Anglo-Saxon liberalism and communism.
The net result was that the Anglo parishes had an extensive network of schools and libraries conducive to continuous education and the French parishes were constrained. A problem that wasn't rectified until 1964 and the Quiet Revolution in Quebec.
....
If you can figure out how to have a tolerant society and have everybody believe the same thing you might be on to something.
Can I refer you to the Manitoba Schools Question as a starting point?
Manitoba Schools Question - Wikipedia
The background to the issue was, on one side the reintroduction of Catholicism into Briish lands in the 1840s and, on the other side, Riel's Rebellions, the Fenians and the assassination of Darcy McGee.
In 1763 the Brits decided to let the French stay and keep their lands, their language and their religion. They had tried the alternate solution in Scotland and Acadia recently and that hadn't worked out so well. It was easier to go along to get along. But they did insist that there be no new priests, that the existing priests swear allegiance to the Crown and that the Jesuits were troublesome and should be ejected. The Pope and most of the Catholic monarchs agreed and suppressed the Jesuits after 1773.
The problem there was that the priests were responsible for education. So the education system suffered.
Concurrently, the British world was opening up education to the masses. Schools were becoming more common. In Scotland they were mandatory and truancy was punished. Libraries opened up. NIght schools became common. Trades colleges opened. Universities started teaching STEM courses to anyone with a penny.
This was at odds with the Papacy's desire to protect the flock. The difference was put down on paper by a series of encyclicals or bulls ostensibly aimed at the Masons but actually criticizing Anglo-Saxon liberalism.
The Anglo-Saxon Roman division was patched up in stages.
The Brits let the Quebecers keep their church and language in 1763.
They let the Quebecers take public office with the Quebec Act of 1774.
They let the Catholics of Ireland and then England take public office by affirming that they were loyal to the Crown and not the Papacy.
(This was to the chagrin of the dissenters I referred to above who were still not allowed public office resulting in what the Establishment referred to as Anti-Catholic riots - they weren't anti-Catholic so much as anti-Government).
Accommodation sped up with the French Revolution. The British Establishment gave shelter to the French Establishment that were getting their heads lopped off. This included giving shelter to French priests.
The French priests found a ready audience in Ireland. Many of the Irish had been going to France and Belgium, particularly Douai, for their advanced education. So had the English Catholics. This countered the flow of French protestants that had been coming to England from the 1700s to get shelter from Louis XIII, XIV, XV and XVI.
Again the working condition was that the priests acknowledge the Crown and repudiate the doctrine of Papal Infallibility.
With that stipulation the priests were allowed to preach in England, Wales and Ireland. Their introduction is coincidental with the Anglican church becoming less Methodist and more Catholic, giving up pub songs for traditional services. Following on from that the Pope felt comfortable enough to reintroduce a papal hierarchy of bishops into England in parallel to the Church of England. That happened on 29 Sept 1850.
It was during this period of reconciliation that the Oblates arrived in Canada. They arrived in 1841. They were allowed in partly to cover off the education of Quebecers.
Britain continued its public education expansion. In Canada Egerton Ryerson was at the forefront of that. But the Papacy was adamant that they define a good family, a good Catholic and a good education for their flock. They went so far as to excommunicate anyone who had anything to do with the secular public schools. To compensate the Oblates were admitted to offer an alternative for the French parishes.
The separation was not helped by papal encyclicals denouncing liberalism, modernism and toleration and promoting corporatism as an alternative to both Anglo-Saxon liberalism and communism.
The net result was that the Anglo parishes had an extensive network of schools and libraries conducive to continuous education and the French parishes were constrained. A problem that wasn't rectified until 1964 and the Quiet Revolution in Quebec.
....
If you can figure out how to have a tolerant society and have everybody believe the same thing you might be on to something.
McG
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You are not really offering choice in a multifaith society when the choice is secular or one minority religion. If you want undiscriminating choice, then establish two competing secular systems. If you are not ready to do that, your real priority is not about offering everyone an equal choice.
The true fiscal conservative thing to do would be to end constitutional religious schools in Alberta & Ontario. UCP could even tie it to their advancing of charter schools. But social conservatives are less supportive of such ideas.
Oldgateboatdriver
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One of the easiest thing to do. After all, both in the case of Quebec and Newfoundland, when it came time to abolish religion based school boards and replace them with secular or secular and language based ones (in Quebec), it was determined that under the constitution, they were part of Provincial constitutional aspects and thus, required only two-third majority votes in the legislature of the province at issue and by Parliament.
In today's non-denominational governance system that we have, no Parliament would want to stand in the way of any province that would wish to make its education system non-denominational.
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It's interesting. Catholic schools are required to take anyone up to grade 8 regardless of their religion. Afterwards boards can make rules such as kids need to be baptized but in practice even then a lot of kids are accepted anyways.
That seems accurate.
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I have no problem with religious schools.
Two pre-conditions
They be treated like charter schools
They be provincially inspected to conform to a standard curriculum.
No different than inspecting halal abbatoirs.
Two pre-conditions
They be treated like charter schools
They be provincially inspected to conform to a standard curriculum.
No different than inspecting halal abbatoirs.
Oldgateboatdriver
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Comparing schools to abbatoirs. That's one I hadn't seen before.
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The problem I have is the more Boards that are publicly supported, the less any one gets of increasingly scarce public dollars.
I might have mentioned this before but one town I lived in had a single high school serving 4 boards, French and English Catholic and French and English Public (I think now the Catholic side has their own building.
Finding a teacher to teach senior-grade calculus is difficult; even moreso in a small northern community. Trying to find one that made everybody happy was a major challenge. An openly gay, Jewish unilingual teacher need not apply.