Off Grid Homesteading

[Halifax Tar]

After what seems like years of searching I think the missus and I finally found our large acreage to set up our off grid camp/homestead/run away.

Lots of space to hunt and fish and live off what the land provides. And no neighbors.

Would love a repository for group info on this... and I'd love people who have experience with solar and wells.

Anyone else have any experience ?

 

[Remius]

After what seems like years of searching I think the missus and I finally found our large acreage to set up our off grid camp/homestead/run away.

Lots of space to hunt and fish and live off what the land provides. And no neighbors.

Would love a repository for group info on this... and I'd love people who have experience with solar and wells.

Anyone else have any experience ?

Only adjacent experience.

For about 40 years or so my father had an off the grid property in Lanark county. 5 acres with water access to a swampy lake that was excellent for duck hunting and right next to 10k acres of crown land. Plenty of deer.

Used it year round. And my parents would spend weeks there at a time. Especially in winter we would tap about 100 trees or so for maple syrup.

No power, no running water. On a pump well. Used a combo of solar for minor things like kitchen lights, outdoor lighting and keeping a charge on the Argo battery (btw, get one, they are amazing and way better than ATVs in the bush).

Wood heating. And an unlimited supply of hardwood for fuel.

Just one thing. As my parents aged it was getting harder and harder to keep up with the work it takes to maintain and live that way.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Make sure you check bylaws/building code in whatever area you want to move into. Many don’t allow off grid homes to be built anymore (i.e. won’t give permits). The Amish in my area will buy a home which is wired and just shut off the power.

Even living in the middle of nowhere you will often end up with people way to concerned about what you get up to.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the idea, one day I intend to do the same, but you need to check with your area for their regulations. For example around where I am in the organized townships most have bylaws against people living in trailers on their own property.

 

[foresterab]

At least locally here to get a development permit they are quite strict on the access and zoning. Too many folks built structures on goat trails that don't allow for fire engines to respond to fires and/or school busses can't access. So things like road approaches and access road construction they are quite strict on.

In terms of the structures themselves I am allowed some accessory buildings and up to one cabin per property for recreational use (size limited). They make no distinction between temporary structures and permanent in part due to folks trying to pull the "temporary" card too often.

Rules on wells and power vary widely....some allow green field sewage, some don't. Some allow wells but others may have restrictions. Power again varies widely...folks have one parcel with power on it but because it's not a primary residence they are not allowed to set up solar panels (which would sell back to grid) but if it was the house there would be no issues.

Recommendation would be start with a small shed for storage and spend at least the first year trying to figure out the site. What goes where? Where's the drainage? best views or walks? before rushing into building.

Lastly I'd look into some of the woodlot options...by building on raw land it may trigger residential taxes or recreational taxes. A woodlot - the definition of which varies by province and requirements - may allow for the majority of the land to be taxed as agricultural rates. Each province generally has it's own program so I'm not up to speed on them all.

 

[Halifax Tar]

At least locally here to get a development permit they are quite strict on the access and zoning. Too many folks built structures on goat trails that don't allow for fire engines to respond to fires and/or school busses can't access. So things like road approaches and access road construction they are quite strict on.

In terms of the structures themselves I am allowed some accessory buildings and up to one cabin per property for recreational use (size limited). They make no distinction between temporary structures and permanent in part due to folks trying to pull the "temporary" card too often.

Rules on wells and power vary widely....some allow green field sewage, some don't. Some allow wells but others may have restrictions. Power again varies widely...folks have one parcel with power on it but because it's not a primary residence they are not allowed to set up solar panels (which would sell back to grid) but if it was the house there would be no issues.

Recommendation would be start with a small shed for storage and spend at least the first year trying to figure out the site. What goes where? Where's the drainage? best views or walks? before rushing into building.

Lastly I'd look into some of the woodlot options...by building on raw land it may trigger residential taxes or recreational taxes. A woodlot - the definition of which varies by province and requirements - may allow for the majority of the land to be taxed as agricultural rates. Each province generally has it's own program so I'm not up to speed on them all.

I appreciate this. Been deep digging to this now! Thank you.

 

[lenaitch]

By the sounds of things, the first step would be to see what you can and cannot do since it seems we can never completely escape the government; only in degrees and depending on your jurisdiction. Ontario has a lot of 'unorganized municipalities'; basically geographic townships with no local government. I understand it is now required to build to Code and have it inspected by the provincial government, as well as needing a septic permit from the local health unit.

 

[OldSolduer]

After what seems like years of searching I think the missus and I finally found our large acreage to set up our off grid camp/homestead/run away.

Lots of space to hunt and fish and live off what the land provides. And no neighbors.

Would love a repository for group info on this... and I'd love people who have experience with solar and wells.

Anyone else have any experience ?

Don't be Ted Kascinski....the Unabomber lived off the grid.

 

[Remius]

By the sounds of things, the first step would be to see what you can and cannot do since it seems we can never completely escape the government; only in degrees and depending on your jurisdiction. Ontario has a lot of 'unorganized municipalities'; basically geographic townships with no local government. I understand it is now required to build to Code and have it inspected by the provincial government, as well as needing a septic permit from the local health unit.

Ours was a land owner association. No municipality so rules were fairly loose. We had three structures by the time my parents sold. The cabin, the shed and bunkhouse. Built on blocks so no foundations. Simple. No plumbing, no electricity.

One thing though that can hit you is the insurance especially if using wood burning as the primary source of heat. Expensive.

 

[lenaitch]

Ours was a land owner association. No municipality so rules were fairly loose. We had three structures by the time my parents sold. The cabin, the shed and bunkhouse. Built on blocks so no foundations. Simple. No plumbing, no electricity.

One thing though that can hit you is the insurance especially if using wood burning as the primary source of heat. Expensive.

I'm actually surprised that a homestead/off grid property could get insurance, period, and suspect many homesteaders wouldn't even try.

Insurance companies are so risk-averse now. When we moved to our Victorian farmhouse, it had an operable , WETT inspected wood cookstove and our insurance company at the time (don't recall) plain said 'no'. We had to go to a farmer's mutual-type company. I have heard some won't write a building with a modern fireplace or woodstove. Heck, the number of companies that will write policies for motorcycles is getting short.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Don't be Ted Kascinski....the Unabomber lived off the grid.

The Gov isn't worth that kind effort lol.

 

[foresterab]

I'm actually surprised that a homestead/off grid property could get insurance, period, and suspect many homesteaders wouldn't even try.

Insurance companies are so risk-averse now. When we moved to our Victorian farmhouse, it had an operable , WETT inspected wood cookstove and our insurance company at the time (don't recall) plain said 'no'. We had to go to a farmer's mutual-type company. I have heard some won't write a building with a modern fireplace or woodstove. Heck, the number of companies that will write policies for motorcycles is getting short.

It's a huge issue we often start to overlap into....why aren't you pulling resources off protecting the local town/water treatment plant and protect my off grid oasis in the middle of burning forest...One of many reasons Wildland Urban Interface fires suck.

Reality is many folks don't have home insurance regardless of location and/or hazard especially if the mortgage is paid off. The house might have cost $50,000 in 1975 to build...and folks forget that same house is now $350,000. But instead view the insurance costs against original costs and waive it. Or it's a budgetary sacrifice if things are tight hoping nothing happens. And then it all gets political over who gets compensated and who doesn't.

Then there are many out there that assume if I don't pull a permit or ask for permission I can build and the government won't tax me. And that used to work 40-50 years ago but most municipalities around here now order their own satellite imagery and/or augment via drone flights and frankly have a pretty good sense of what's been done that is new. If you set a remote sensing filter to look for squares/rectangles over X size it's pretty easy to check alot of area fast and then cross reference to past images. If they could identify Russian tanks this way in the 1980's how tough is finding a cabin that doesn't move around....

Reality is if I was to be building a rural cabin - and this might happen in 10-15 years - I'd be designing it in such a way as to make it as disaster safe as I can. Mowed grass around. Metal roof. Pre-installed roof sprinklers with permanent pipes feeding off a water tank. Then I'd just need to fire up a pump and walk away.... Thankfully I'm outside of earthquake fault zones, flood plains and railway derailments.

 

[Eaglelord17]

By the sounds of things, the first step would be to see what you can and cannot do since it seems we can never completely escape the government; only in degrees and depending on your jurisdiction. Ontario has a lot of 'unorganized municipalities'; basically geographic townships with no local government. I understand it is now required to build to Code and have it inspected by the provincial government, as well as needing a septic permit from the local health unit.

It was always required to build to code. However previously the provincial government lacked the powers to assign a inspector to a unorganized township without a municipality to do so. This left it in a bit of a grey area where you had to technically follow code but there was no one to verify or enforce it.

This changed in the early 2020s (unsure exact year) where now they can assign inspectors to unorganized townships to verify your following code.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It's a huge issue we often start to overlap into....why aren't you pulling resources off protecting the local town/water treatment plant and protect my off grid oasis in the middle of burning forest...One of many reasons Wildland Urban Interface fires suck.

Reality is many folks don't have home insurance regardless of location and/or hazard especially if the mortgage is paid off. The house might have cost $50,000 in 1975 to build...and folks forget that same house is now $350,000. But instead view the insurance costs against original costs and waive it. Or it's a budgetary sacrifice if things are tight hoping nothing happens. And then it all gets political over who gets compensated and who doesn't.

Then there are many out there that assume if I don't pull a permit or ask for permission I can build and the government won't tax me. And that used to work 40-50 years ago but most municipalities around here now order their own satellite imagery and/or augment via drone flights and frankly have a pretty good sense of what's been done that is new. If you set a remote sensing filter to look for squares/rectangles over X size it's pretty easy to check alot of area fast and then cross reference to past images. If they could identify Russian tanks this way in the 1980's how tough is finding a cabin that doesn't move around....

Reality is if I was to be building a rural cabin - and this might happen in 10-15 years - I'd be designing it in such a way as to make it as disaster safe as I can. Mowed grass around. Metal roof. Pre-installed roof sprinklers with permanent pipes feeding off a water tank. Then I'd just need to fire up a pump and walk away.... Thankfully I'm outside of earthquake fault zones, flood plains and railway derailments.

Using my cursory search it looks like our plans are all within the country regulations just permits are needed, which we planned to do anyways. But we will go to the lawyers and county offices to confirm.

One thing that we do need to do is to get into the easements and covenants on the property. I know there is a rule against clear cutting, which is fine that was never our intent.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Using my cursory search it looks like our plans are all within the country regulations just permits are needed, which we planned to do anyways. But we will go to the lawyers and county offices to confirm.

One thing that we do need to do is to get into the easements and covenants on the property. I know there is a rule against clear cutting, which is fine that was never our intent.

If you don't mind me asking, how "comfortable" and permanent is the plan, and where is your balance between jumping through government hoops to get it vs. jumping through hoops to remain compliant but legally outside of approvals and permitting?

 

[Halifax Tar]

If you don't mind me asking, how "comfortable" and permanent is the plan, and where is your balance between jumping through government hoops to get it vs. jumping through hoops to remain compliant but legally outside of approvals and permitting?

Its going to be a May - Dec get away and hunting camp really. But we intend to keep everything above board.

Looking at solar, dug well for dishes and shower, potable water I will truck in, and a sceptic holding tank for utilities.

Heat will be mostly propane.

We will adjust on the fly with price and ability. We are flexy and know Rome wasn't built in a day. But the goal is by the opening of ML season this year we are hunting on our own own land.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Its going to be a May - Dec get away and hunting camp really. But we intend to keep everything above board.

Looking at solar, dug well for dishes and shower, potable water I will truck in, and a sceptic holding tank for utilities.

Heat will be mostly propane.

We will adjust on the fly with price and ability. We are flexy and know Rome wasn't built in a day. But the goal is by the opening of ML season this year we are hunting on our own own land.

Cool. I'm envious.

With the price of land in southern Ontario I've been looking at cheaper bushlots that have zoning blocks preventing permitting buildings (a fraction of the price) so I've done a decent amount of research and penciling on what can be done above board but beneath regulatory oversight- but none of that is pertinent to your goals

 

[foresterab]

Again I can't highlight enough the value of investigating woodlot options. One I toured years ago in Pembrooke area of s. Ontario was paying over $250,000 LESS tax due to the woodlot designation due to being a large area of forested land in the middle of cottages....municipality by default assessed everything as recreational tax vs. agriculture.

If I can get my plan done and signed off I should be able to drop my taxes from ~1400 to closer to $100/year.

Unfortunately the rules and eligibility vary a lot by province but conservation, long term investment, recreation and/or inter-generational transfers are not unheard of reasons of managing a woodlot...it's not just logging or may not involve logging at all.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Cool. I'm envious.

With the price of land in southern Ontario I've been looking at cheaper bushlots that have zoning blocks preventing permitting buildings (a fraction of the price) so I've done a decent amount of research and penciling on what can be done above board but beneath regulatory oversight- but none of that is pertinent to your goals

Its a bit of an advantage of living in NS. Vacant land is more reasonable and especially as I don't care about water front I'm more concerned with space so its even better.

 

[Eaglelord17]

You guys should try Northern Ontario. Some real beautiful chunks of land for sometimes in the low 100k range.

Or if you wait longer things like this come up (outside my price range).

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/28585661/south-lizard-island-near-lake-superior-provincial-park-algoma-near-lake-superior-provincial-park-algoma

 

[Halifax Tar]

You guys should try Northern Ontario. Some real beautiful chunks of land for sometimes in the low 100k range.

Or if you wait longer things like this come up (outside my price range).

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/28585661/south-lizard-island-near-lake-superior-provincial-park-algoma-near-lake-superior-provincial-park-algoma

If I had my choice we would be back in Ont and doing this on the family homestead in the Tamworth - Enterprise - Verona corridor north of Kingston.

But I married a Scotian who wont leave Scotia. And I mean I am pretty fond of her too