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High Speed Train Coming?-split from boosting Canada’s military spending"

Any sense how much or how little Crown land is available for the HSR to use and reduce costs/time associated with expropriation?

They have said their goal is maximum use of existing rail corridors, hydro corridors and trails. But it's obviously impossible to do 100%.

There's a hydro corridor that runs from near the GTA till north of Ottawa. I wonder why they didn't pick that one.
 
I understand where you're coming from, and if it was my land I'd be a bit upset, but I also the the other side of it. When the government takes land they tend to pay over market value for the land, so its of not getting fair value.

We wouldn't have a lot of our current CAF training areas if the government couldn't appropriate land. We wouldn't have our modern highways systems either... Both are useful, and an in the overall public interest to have, even if it was inconvenient for the few who had their land appropriated.

Even in America, various levels of government can appropriate land for large public projects, so it's not a case of evil commie Canada stealing from people.
They use the term 'Eminent Domain' down in the US. Pretty much the same thing in the end. Eminent Domain is focused on the 'inherent power of authority' while Expropriation is around the executing of that power.
 
I understand where you're coming from, and if it was my land I'd be a bit upset, but I also the the other side of it. When the government takes land they tend to pay over market value for the land, so its of not getting fair value.

Who decides value ? If my land isn't for sale and you want it I should able to name my price or you go pound sand.

We wouldn't have a lot of our current CAF training areas if the government couldn't appropriate land. We wouldn't have our modern highways systems either... Both are useful, and an in the overall public interest to have, even if it was inconvenient for the few who had their land appropriated.

Lots of crown land out there. Go use it.

Even in America, various levels of government can appropriate land for large public projects, so it's not a case of evil commie Canada stealing from people.

I never said anything that has anything to do with this.
 
Any sense how much or how little Crown land is available for the HSR to use and reduce costs/time associated with expropriation?

No idea.

But any 'long thin' piece of land, like a pipeline or a train right of way, will traverse thousands of different types of land tenures. Of all the types, Crown Land is the easiest, usually, to manage.

It's mind boggling when you see it in action, really. In some cases, dozens of PS staff and lawyers an other experts can spend their whole careers figuring it out, right @Colin Parkinson? ;)

The reason China (and other authoritarian regimes) can build these things so fast is because 'Dictatorship' - the state dictates.
 
Its comments like that where you lose credibility in your argument with me.

You can make your argument without being a dick to your opposition for no reason. You're smarter than that, and we agree else where. But for some reason your posts in this thread verge and being just mean.

Don't lose me as an ally.

I suggest you suck back and reload for while here.



Canada does have that problem. I wonder why that is ?
Because we believed the fiction that we are the first post-national state.
My concern with the expropriations is what is does to good farm land. The 401 towards London separated numerous farm houses from the land and made them impossible to work. Now the land between Peterborough and Perth/Smith Falls is primarily bush and rock but all the rest of it on whatever route they choose is prime land. That is a lot of acreage taken out of production: probably permanently.
 
They have said their goal is maximum use of existing rail corridors, hydro corridors and trails. But it's obviously impossible to do 100%.

There's a hydro corridor that runs from near the GTA till north of Ottawa. I wonder why they didn't pick that one.

Crownland map of Ontario
 
Because we believed the fiction that we are the first post-national state.

Ugh I hate what that man did to my country. He really should be put on trial for treason and with any luck found guilty and locked away for the rest of his years.
 
No idea.

But any 'long thin' piece of land, like a pipeline or a train right of way, will traverse thousands of different types of land tenures. Of all the types, Crown Land is the easiest, usually, to manage.

It's mind boggling when you see it in action, really. In some cases, dozens of PS staff and lawyers an other experts can spend their whole careers figuring it out, right @Colin Parkinson? ;)

The reason China (and other authoritarian regimes) can build these things so fast is because 'Dictatorship' - the state dictates.
When they purchase land do they ask for your entire property or just the bit they want for the ROW? Perhaps having each landowner locate property of a similar nature and paying the difference would make it more palatable?
 
Should you then pay property taxes based on your declared value?

That's a red herring. Bidding wars happen all the time and that has nothing to do with property tax value.

Interesting anecdote, the land I just purchased is from a company/business. Because its from a company and not an individual I have to pay HST.
 
When they purchase land do they ask for your entire property or just the bit they want for the ROW? Perhaps having each landowner locate property of a similar nature and paying the difference would make it more palatable?
For railway, the entirety of a small property might have to be bought. It isn't always necessary; a road easement often only takes the necessary chunk of land.

With respect to "plan", anyone who has done a proper estimate knows what a "plan" should look like. If all the tasks have been identified and resources assigned (or earmarked), the document can probably be called a "plan". Politicians are fond of calling statements of aspirations and frameworks "plans".

If the estimate is "$60B to $90B", that's such an absurdly broad window that I doubt there is really a recognizable "plan" yet for the overall project. There may be specific segments and nodes for which a proper "plan" exists. The rest is going to be flying by the seats of their pants like a kid hoping his pile of Lego holds out until whatever he meant to build is finished. Another colloquial way of putting it is that they're making "rock soup".
 
No clear plan = More trashing activity...

Dan Albas: High speed rail is another Liberal legacy project without a plan​

$90 billion for a train most families will never ride and can’t afford

Conservatives believe Canada is a country ready to build again. For too long, especially in our largest cities, young Canadians have watched governments make big announcements while the cost of living rises, opportunities narrow and major projects stall. After more than a decade of Liberal promises, overspending and delays, Canadians deserve a new approach that delivers real results people can actually afford.

High‑speed rail is an exciting idea. Young Canadians travel abroad and wonder why Canada, a G7 country, still struggles to build so many different things. Conservatives agree: Canada should be building more, building smarter and building faster.

But Alto, announced in the final days of Justin Trudeau’s premiership, doesn’t reflect that kind of smart ambition. It looks more like a legacy project — another big promise without any clear plan to deliver. Conservatives have made our position clear, but doubts are being raised within the Liberal party too, with Liberal MP for the Bay of Quinte, Chris Malette, coming out in opposition to the project proposal.

It is surprising that Prime Minister Mark Carney doubled down on this megaproject without any public fiscal review, independent scrutiny or even a feasibility report. Creating a new state‑run high‑speed rail corporation to build a Toronto–Quebec City line in an already well‑serviced corridor, at a projected cost of at least $90 billion or more, is a serious undertaking.


This criticism doesn't actually say anything about what they would do different. This particular line looks like an effort to have their cake and eat it too: "Young Canadians travel abroad and wonder why Canada, a G7 country, still struggles to build so many different things."

I don't get how he squares that with his party leader openly saying he will cancel this if elected.
 
This criticism doesn't actually say anything about what they would do different. This particular line looks like an effort to have their cake and eat it too: "Young Canadians travel abroad and wonder why Canada, a G7 country, still struggles to build so many different things."

I don't get how he squares that with his party leader openly saying he will cancel this if elected.

An unkind observer might say: 'Rich' young Canadians travel abroad... the perfect Liberal/ Laurentian elite target group of course ;)
 
Hell. I am not young and I wonder the exact same thing every time I travel.
 
"Young Canadians travel abroad and wonder why Canada, a G7 country, still struggles to build so many different things."

I would consider my self extensively traveled.

Id rather be able to fly to Ont or Que for what Europe pays for their internal European flights than HSR.
 
Hell. I am not young and I wonder the exact same thing every time I travel.
Yet when overseas friends have ridden VIA1 from OW they have been universal in their admiration for the service and the food. Riders of ICE have never had it so good
 
Id rather be able to fly to Ont or Que for what Europe pays for their internal European flights than HSR.

And that won't happen without more rail. Ironically. At least for the Corridor the only way to get more competitive pressure on air fares is to build an alternative.
 
And that won't happen without more rail. Ironically. At least for the Corridor the only way to get more competitive pressure on air fares is to build an alternative.

I mean much like our tele coms I also think we should break the control our big company's have and flood our markets with competition, not from China.
 
Yet when overseas friends have ridden VIA1 from OW they have been universal in their admiration for the service and the food. Riders of ICE have never had it so good

Cause when your train ride is 5-6 hrs the catering matters more than when your ride is 2-3 hrs. Different perspective. That said, I had okay meals on the Spanish HSR. And Japan has some absolutely famous culture around food at HSR stations that is taken onboard.

There's nothing preventing the maintenance of the same catering standard with Alto as Via. Just depends on demand for it.
 
No idea.

But any 'long thin' piece of land, like a pipeline or a train right of way, will traverse thousands of different types of land tenures. Of all the types, Crown Land is the easiest, usually, to manage.

It's mind boggling when you see it in action, really. In some cases, dozens of PS staff and lawyers an other experts can spend their whole careers figuring it out, right @Colin Parkinson? ;)

The reason China (and other authoritarian regimes) can build these things so fast is because 'Dictatorship' - the state dictates.
Well to an extent, the Province can act how it wants

 
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