Canada to Spend $5.0Bil on AEW Aircraft (Saab Globaleye)

[Nvlgzr]

Don't kid yourself the GE6500 has already been figured out for these systems long before now. Including aerial refueling probe. The question is how much will Bombardier want to recoup on those costs.

It was brought up in this thread back in February or so that the feds were giving Bombardier money to research/ develop AAR for the 6500.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Oh brother, I feel your pain.

I drive for OC and you just described every day of my working life. I mean, it’s fantastic that they want to make cycling safer and more appealing, I’m all for that. As near as i can tell they are attempting to make driving downtown so irritating that people will make the decision to bike, walk or take public transit. Somebody overlooked that buses also need viable roads in order to serve the system. Narrowing main roads (Elgin, Queen and Scott I’m looking at you) through a series of overly intrusive bike lanes and traffic calming measures has made it all but impossible to get transit users anywhere in a predominantly or timely manner. There’s very little here that shows a coherent plan from City Management to sort any of it out.

But, I digress, back to the thread topic…sorry mods for the derail.

Sounds Like Winnipeg.

 

[calculus]

I still believe the E-7 is a better option for Canada, as I do not believe that the Gulfstream size business jet has the power or space to house the required equipment for conducting Battlespace Management today, let alone a few decades from now.

Despite the fact that battlespace management (C2) is a key capability? This is after all an AEW&C platform.

GlobalEye: increasing your operational availability

In modern conflict, situations develop rapidly, and your forces receiving accurate, timely intelligence is the key to mission success. Airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) systems are airborne radar solutions used to detect and identify air, land and sea vehicles, missiles and other...

www.saab.com

The electronics on the E-7 are at least 15 years old (probably more like 20). The SAAB solution is at least a generation more modern, especially the Erieye-ER antenna. That means smaller and more efficient components. You can pack lot of capability into a business jet like the Global 6500. Though admittedly smaller than a 737, it isn't exactly small... Having said all this, I still would have preferred the E-7. But, the Globaleye will bring a real capability improvement to the RCAF, and to NORAD as well.

 

[Underway]

I suspect that given some of the capabilities inherent in the E7 that may not be in the Global Eye (GE) there could be an argument for the purchase of more airframes or different airframes.

Example is that the E7 radar say covers more airspace, or have longer endurance. As such in order to provide the same coverage over time we would likely have to have a higher sortie rate for the GE. Which probably means more aircraft.

I definitely see a 6500 family of aircraft now for the airforce, where I didn't see that before. VVIP, AEW&C, Batllespace management, EW, Airborne sensing, perhaps even a maritime/arctic surveillance version like the Aussies just bought though P8 will probably do that job with the MQ's.

 

[Maxman1]

The E-7 is large enough to carry command staff and a second flight crew.

 

[Underway]

The E-7 is large enough to carry command staff and a second flight crew.

Yah that would be an advantage.

So what you're saying is that once we get these aircraft we need to leverage the Saab IP for sensors to build a C series equivalent of the E-7.... lol. Airbus sure (50.01% actually), but the planes are built in Mirabel.

 

[MrWhyt]

The E-7 is large enough to carry command staff and a second flight crew.

are we going to have enough manpower for a command staff and second flight crew?

 

[childs56]

NATO Compatible doesn't necessarily mean NORAD compatible.


SOCOM and the ABC's vice USAF, also it is more a ELINT bird as opposed to a AEWCC.
There is a big difference between between being a high altitude listener, and a radar bird running AESA - so I am not sure the work there is compatible at all -- at least with US NSA approved systems.

I agree with the Aerial Refueling Probe and fuel linkage.
De-Icing? Everywhere they have gone down here have generally been warm.

For decades Canada ignored Defense - so zero market...

I still believe the E-7 is a better option for Canada, as I do not believe that the Gulfstream size business jet has the power or space to house the required equipment for conducting Battlespace Management today, let alone a few decades from now.

The US Bombardier G6000 E-11A were conducting comm relay services between US Aircraft on operations recently.
Due to the F35 having the latest and greatest stealthy comms MADL. The others with out the capability across the board. (again open source information) The E-11A were being used as relay stations for the stealthy planes to communicate with others such as the 52s, F15s etc.
Leads me to believe the F35s were designation targets and doing what they were made to do is command and control of the battle field while remaining stealthy. Passing that information onto others indirectly through the E-11As who were flying a safe distance away.

It really is amazing when one thinks of how all the tech is pooled together for a combine use of assets across the board. Reports of Ukraine using their Saab 340 AEW&C to designate ground targets for Artillery and missile strikes is something truly awesome. The rumors that the US were giving the direct information through AWCS and satellite may not be fully true as Ukraine may have used their own systems to perform that function.

I think as Canada builds new relationships with equipment and testing, we are going to have a very well rounded package that is more suited to our needs and not those of the United States.. That package is going to perform very well alongside what the US already provides, will incorporate a variety of great systems.
A-OTHR

 

[Maxman1]

are we going to have enough manpower for a command staff and second flight crew?

Yes. Command staff are officers and we infamously have no shortage of them, and the E-7 is on the Boeing 737, meaning it would be a shared qualification with the incoming P-8, so even if the AEW&C squadron was short of flight crews, we could easily get replacements on short notice.

 

[Nvlgzr]

Yes. Command staff are officers and we infamously have no shortage of them, and the E-7 is on the Boeing 737, meaning it would be a shared qualification with the incoming P-8, so even if the AEW&C squadron was short of flight crews, we could easily get replacements on short notice.

I’m confused (more than usual) . It’s has been announced that RCAF is getting Globaleye. Do you believe we will also by E7?

 

[childs56]

Yes. Command staff are officers and we infamously have no shortage of them, and the E-7 is on the Boeing 737, meaning it would be a shared qualification with the incoming P-8, so even if the AEW&C squadron was short of flight crews, we could easily get replacements on short notice.

But we were informed on here that P8 flying was more then just flying, that pilots would need specific training to fly the P8. How much of that training, operational experience, requirements would or could transfer over from the E7 to the P8. Besides flying the aircraft.

 

[Underway]

I’m confused (more than usual) . It’s has been announced that RCAF is getting Globaleye. Do you believe we will also by E7?

It hasn't been announced. There is a specific line in the documentation that says this relationship doesn't constitute a purchase. It's essentially an agreement to give us a look under the hood.

Of course who's kidding who. This will probably lead to a purchase.

 

[Nvlgzr]

It hasn't been announced. There is a specific line in the documentation that says this relationship doesn't constitute a purchase. It's essentially an agreement to give us a look under the hood.

Of course who's kidding who. This will probably lead to a purchase.

Agreed that no contract has been signed, but Carney stated at Cansec that “Canada has entered into negotiations to procure SAAB’s airborne early warning and control aircraft.”.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Agreed that no contract has been signed, but Carney stated at Cansec that “Canada has entered into negotiations to procure SAAB’s airborne early warning and control aircraft.”.

As long as they aren't a 'Cadillac 'elicopter' we should be good