High Speed Train Coming?-split from boosting Canada’s military spending"

[ytz]

Transportation between points within a province is a provincial responsibility. Alberta is in the very early stages of their proposal. Once they get into dollars that start with a 'B', it will be interesting to see if they go it alone. I'm not, out of principle, against federal contributions - they do it for all provinces.

The Ontario-Quebec HSR is inter-provincial.

VIA intra-provincial routes are the remaining carry-overs from the routes they inherited from CN and CP.

The feds can and should contribute to AB building their HSR line. We need to think less about provincial boundaries (which we all just randomly made up a century and a bit ago) and more about connecting regions where the bulk of Canadians live. I would be more than happy to see my tax dollars connect Edmonton and Calgary.

 

[ytz]

AI ASSISTED
This video explores the growing auto loan bubble in the United States, arguing that a cycle of debt driven by luxury pickup truck financing could trigger a significant economic downturn, similar to the 2008 housing crisis.

Key Takeaways:​

• The Debt Trap: Many Americans are taking out massive loans for expensive, high-trim trucks (e.g., Ford F-150, GMC Sierra) that they cannot afford. These vehicles are often used as status symbols rather than work tools (0:33 - 1:02, 7:35 - 8:07).
• Financial Engineering: Dealerships and lenders are pushing 84-month loan terms to make high monthly payments appear manageable. This long-term financing, combined with rapid vehicle depreciation, leaves a high percentage of owners with negative equity (1:47 - 2:03, 9:06 - 10:25).
• Systemic Risk: Risky auto loans are being bundled into Asset-Backed Securities (ABS), allowing investors to profit while consumers struggle with default and repossession. Delinquency rates for subprime auto loans have reached alarming levels, mirroring trends seen before the 2008 recession (12:53 - 14:45, 19:47 - 20:03).
• Economic Impact: As inventory piles up on dealer lots and repossessions increase, the cycle of debt is effectively trapping a generation, potentially delaying homeownership and destroying personal savings (17:00 - 18:03, 18:19 - 19:27).

Ultimately, the video characterizes the modern truck market as a tool for financial extraction rather than utility, warning that the fallout from this bubble may start in dealership parking lots before rippling into the broader economy (21:30 - 22:19).

It says America but I've personally seen the same thing happening here.

I listen to the Autoline podcasts. They are pre-dominantly Boomers and Gen X and are often panicked over dying auto culture among younger generations. Make new cars >$50k on average. Make homes with garages > $500k. Gee I wonder why young people don't want cars anymore.

 

[ytz]

so never a harmonized system. Bad news and the leftover infrastructure from VIA doesn't extend beyond the corridor. I know that Altair and YTZ have high hopes for this thing but I fear they are leaving most of the market completely out of the picture.

Most of the market is the Corridor. Other than the Corridor and Alberta, passenger rail isn't going to be competitive. There's no real case for it other pouring extraordinary subsidies per passenger (not just initial capital). Most of the country doesn't have enough traffic to even justify segregated and divided highways the whole way. And we're supposed to care about building a mode of transport with literally an order of magnitude more capacity? And HSR is an order of magnitude above that.

At best beside, QW and CalEd, maybe there's a case for Vancouver-Abbotsford-Chiliwack. But that's approaching more some kind of upgraded regional/suburban rail. Ditto for Halifax-Moncton.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Most of the market is the Corridor. Other than the Corridor and Alberta, passenger rail isn't going to be competitive. There's no real case for it other pouring extraordinary subsidies per passenger (not just initial capital). Most of the country doesn't have enough traffic to even justify segregated and divided highways the whole way. And we're supposed to care about building a mode of transport with literally an order of magnitude more capacity? And HSR is an order of magnitude above that.

At best beside, QW and CalEd, maybe there's a case for Vancouver-Abbotsford-Chiliwack. But that's approaching more some kind of upgraded regional/suburban rail. Ditto for Halifax-Moncton.

But, apparently, Canada is 'the most European of non-European countries' so I guess we'd better get us some of that high speed rail (which the UK still doesn't have btw)

The Politics of Touting a 'European' Canada - Policy Magazine

On June 23rd, during the Canada-European Union Summit in Brussels where he signed a new Security and Defence Partnership with the EU, Prime Minister Mark

www.policymagazine.ca

 

[ytz]

But, apparently, Canada is 'the most European of non-European countries' so I guess we'd better get us some of that high speed rail (which the UK still doesn't have btw)

The UK runs a good bit of their rail network at 125 mph (201 kph). Not high speed. But not quite VIA either.

Also, as I've pointed out before. Southern Ontario (118/km2) and Southern Quebec (158/km2 along the St. Lawrence from Montreal to Quebec City) have population densities that mimic southern France (80/km2 in Occitane to 160/km2 in PACA) or sourthern Spain (100/km2 in Andalusia). So yes, despite all the protestations, our settled regions have settlement patterns that aren't that different from Europe. Sure, urban density itself may be different. But the spacing of cities and towns? Not as much. The same holds true for large chunks of the US. Even if they don't want to admit it (much like so many here).

 

[YZT580]

The UK runs a good bit of their rail network at 125 mph (201 kph). Not high speed. But not quite VIA either.

Also, as I've pointed out before. Southern Ontario (118/km2) and Southern Quebec (158/km2 along the St. Lawrence from Montreal to Quebec City) have population densities that mimic southern France (80/km2 in Occitane to 160/km2 in PACA) or sourthern Spain (100/km2 in Andalusia). So yes, despite all the protestations, our settled regions have settlement patterns that aren't that different from Europe. Sure, urban density itself may be different. But the spacing of cities and towns? Not as much. The same holds true for large chunks of the US. Even if they don't want to admit it (much like so many here).

Except you aren't serving the corridor either. you are only serving the starting points with no service in-between. An integrated network is needed to make a go of it and that doesn't exist even in the corridor.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Except you aren't serving the corridor either. you are only serving the starting points with no service in-between. An integrated network is needed to make a go of it and that doesn't exist even in the corridor.

If you don't live in the city, then obviously to some people, you don't live.

 

[Altair]

Except you aren't serving the corridor either. you are only serving the starting points with no service in-between. An integrated network is needed to make a go of it and that doesn't exist even in the corridor.

Sounds like a provincial issue.

 

[ytz]

Sounds like a provincial issue.

Yep. Maybe "Government of Ontario Transit" should serve more than the GTA? I pay provincial taxes too. What do I get in Ottawa? Instead, we get bizarre demands for Ottawa residential taxpayers to subsidize buses to far flung exurbs.

 

[Altair]

Yep. Maybe "Government of Ontario Transit" should serve more than the GTA? I pay provincial taxes too. What do I get in Ottawa? Instead, we get bizarre demands for Ottawa residential taxpayers to subsidize buses to far flung exurbs.

You get the LRT which is slower and less reliable than a bus.

Aren't you lucky.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Yep. Maybe "Government of Ontario Transit" should serve more than the GTA? I pay provincial taxes too. What do I get in Ottawa? Instead, we get bizarre demands for Ottawa residential taxpayers to subsidize buses to far flung exurbs.

Whereas you think those "far flung exburbs" should subsidize you?
Got it.....

 

[Gordon Dundas/]

Thanks to Winnipeg Transit's brilliant ( And our mayor's need for a "legacy ".) I now find myself taking an Uber every Saturday night.
And am after 40 odd year of not needing a car am actually considering it.
I keep wondering who at City Hall is getting kick backs from the local Automotive Dealer's Association.

 

[MacNav63]

Yep. Maybe "Government of Ontario Transit" should serve more than the GTA? I pay provincial taxes too. What do I get in Ottawa? Instead, we get bizarre demands for Ottawa residential taxpayers to subsidize buses to far flung exurbs.

To a degree Ottawa's problems are the result of political decisions that have created a city with an urban core surrounded by a greenbelt outside of which sit a collection of suburbs surrounded by a fairly vast rural hinterland, itself peppered with villages (aka bedroom communities) like mine. All within the city limits.

Add to that the rapidly growing communities outside the city limits, that are also feeding commuter into the city, like Almonte, Carleton Place, Kemptville, Russel/Embrun, Rockland, and you've got a transportation system under a lot of pressure to meet a demand which, I would argue, is running a good decade ahead of what was expected when decisions about the system were being made. And then of course there is the Outaouais factor as well.

Uploading the LRT to the province is, assuming it happens, a good first step but you're right, the province needs to play a role in creating a regional transit system that takes into account that greater Ottawa is a big place (shades of our discussion about recognizing Canada's size and power). Hopefully, with Metrolinx running the LRT we could actually start to see plans for extending it out side the city limits, as well as better coordination with the feds on land use and the feds/QC on cross border commuting.

 

[PrairieFella]

Whereas you think those "far flung exburbs" should subsidize you?
Got it.....

Those exurbs are net drains on city finances usually. Not dense enough to pay for the cost of their infrastructure.

 

[PrairieFella]

Thanks to Winnipeg Transit's brilliant ( And our mayor's need for a "legacy ".) I now find myself taking an Uber every Saturday night.
And am after 40 odd year of not needing a car am actually considering it.
I keep wondering who at City Hall is getting kick backs from the local Automotive Dealer's Association.

The plan would work fine if they didnt put the cart before the horse and go to a hub and feeder system without proper rapid transit West, North and East of downtown, nevermind the downtown infrastructure.

 

[ytz]

Those exurbs are net drains on city finances usually. Not dense enough to pay for the cost of their infrastructure.

Worse. Make their money in Ottawa. Spend it and pay taxes outside.

 

[Altair]

Worse. Make their money in Ottawa. Spend it and pay taxes outside.

The burbs in Montreal hate it, but the agglomeration council for shared expenses really does work

 

[lenaitch]

To a degree Ottawa's problems are the result of political decisions that have created a city with an urban core surrounded by a greenbelt outside of which sit a collection of suburbs surrounded by a fairly vast rural hinterland, itself peppered with villages (aka bedroom communities) like mine. All within the city limits.

Add to that the rapidly growing communities outside the city limits, that are also feeding commuter into the city, like Almonte, Carleton Place, Kemptville, Russel/Embrun, Rockland, and you've got a transportation system under a lot of pressure to meet a demand which, I would argue, is running a good decade ahead of what was expected when decisions about the system were being made. And then of course there is the Outaouais factor as well.

Uploading the LRT to the province is, assuming it happens, a good first step but you're right, the province needs to play a role in creating a regional transit system that takes into account that greater Ottawa is a big place (shades of our discussion about recognizing Canada's size and power). Hopefully, with Metrolinx running the LRT we could actually start to see plans for extending it out side the city limits, as well as better coordination with the feds on land use and the feds/QC on cross border commuting.

There are many who advocate for Metrolinx to develop non-Toronto centric service, rail and bus, to cover areas in southwestern and eastern Ontario; so London hubbed and either Ottawa or Kingston hubbed. To date, the Ontario government is not one of those advocates.

The feds can and should contribute to AB building their HSR line. We need to think less about provincial boundaries (which we all just randomly made up a century and a bit ago) and more about connecting regions where the bulk of Canadians live. I would be more than happy to see my tax dollars connect Edmonton and Calgary.

'Contribute' is different than 'do'. The federal government supports all sorts of provincial projects, mush like a province supports municipal works. But many call for the federal government to take the lead in areas where it has no constitutional responsibility. This is similar to those who call for the feds to establish front-line wildfire services.

I would argue that VIA has no business operating trains that begin and end in the same province. The ones they do are legacy from the beginnings of VIA. That doesn't mean that the federal government shouldn't support a province providing the services.

 

[YZT580]

That doesn't mean that the federal government shouldn't support a province providing the services.

or work with the province to develop a harmonized system. It was the feds who created VIA by allowing the two majors to divest themselves of their passenger obligations. From what I have read, carrying passengers was the price they paid for receiving the huge land grants that went with the license to build a railway. Rode both CN and CP across Canada and much preferred the CP route. North of Superior was spectacular. I liked the stainless coaches and accommodations too but that is neither here nor there. But it seems that VIA was only half a system. It had no trackage of its own and the issue of scheduling should have been resolved at that time. The way it was written made it doomed to fail. Now as YTZ gleefully points out if they build the HSR local travel via train will primarily devolve upon the province. How is Ontario going to go up against CN in the corridor and develop a service that probably would be used if it actually existed. I have talked to a lot of Trenton bound personnel who would be delighted to traipse down to union and catch the next train to Trenton (or Belleville) if that train wasn't 18 hours from departure.

 

[YZT580]

Most of the market is the Corridor. Other than the Corridor and Alberta, passenger rail isn't going to be competitive. There's no real case for it other pouring extraordinary subsidies per passenger (not just initial capital). Most of the country doesn't have enough traffic to even justify segregated and divided highways the whole way. And we're supposed to care about building a mode of transport with literally an order of magnitude more capacity? And HSR is an order of magnitude above that.

At best beside, QW and CalEd, maybe there's a case for Vancouver-Abbotsford-Chiliwack. But that's approaching more some kind of upgraded regional/suburban rail. Ditto for Halifax-Moncton.

Why focus on the train notion? The last few years has seen a massive development in Halton county from Milton east through to Mississauga. Whilst all that mud was flying would have been the perfect time to construct a dual track interurban system parallel to Derry Road and meeting up with the GO at some point enroute. Every one of these new subdivisions you have mentioned in whatever city should have a transit system as part of its construction strategy. Something like this. Flat fare of 3 Euros, it travels at 70 kmh between stops and has a neat gadget that allows the driver to call up a green light at an intersection so there is very little delay.



strategy.