Do we need Cadets? Should they be military/uniformed? (split from Trump administration 2024-2028)

[markppcli]

It might be hard to defend in court when there have been successful obese coaches in professional sport. You definitely don't need to pass the FORCE test to promote fitness. Another test? Maybe. A modified Force test where only health-related fitness is measured and operational fitness ignored? Also maybe ... but what are the consequences in the Reg F if you pass on operational fitness metrics but fall into the orange zone? If the only consequences with teeth are linked to failure for operational fitness, CAF would be administering a CIC test that cannot be failed.
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Anyone suggesting a professional sports coach is primarily employed to set a lifestyle example to their players needs to get their head checked. NFL rosters include deliberately obese players - its not the same at all.

To promote fitness i would suggest you need to walk the walk as much as talk the talk. Can you point to me an example of a successful fitness, not a specific sport, coach that isnt in good shape? Or point to be a leader that improved fitness in an orga inaction while being in poor shape themselves? Ill accept an anecdote since we're now in the realm of opinion.

I agree the force test is inappropriate, id suggest the express test is a better indicator of overall fitness vs operational fitness.

 

[Jarnhamar]

It is a heritage thing for the Reg F and PRes as well. If you want to abolish it because it only exists for heritage, then that argument would seem to apply to all.

Certainly.

The NDA says that cadets will be under the control and supervision of the Canadian Forces, and that they will be subject to the authority and command of officers. So there is a legal requirement for CIC to be CAF officers.

True, but there's a legal requirement until there isn't. Summary Trials were removed from the NDA and replaced with Summary Hearings.

This thread has yet to establish a bona fide occupational requirement for them to pass the same fitness test as the Reg F. There is not a universal CAF BFOR and other sub-components are also exempt from doing any fitness test.

A modified fitness test could be a middle ground. Something aimed at being physically active enough to supervise kids during physical activities without becoming a health and safety risk.

Why do you need them to look different? What might be the second order effects, of placating your want, to the Cadet program's objective of building an affinity toward the CAF?

Cadets bring some absolutely stellar kids to the CAF. CI's and CIC officers can continue to accomplish that while wearing the same uniform cadets are given.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Cadets bring some absolutely stellar kids to the CAF.

Not to mention into civvy street even if they don’t end up in the CF - as well as giving Canadians the tiniest shmeck of military knowledge/context, something a lot of Canadians lack (mostly thru apathy than malice).

 

[Kilted]

Here is an idea of what the rank structure could look like. Still needs a bit of work, it looks a touch too American. I designed the ranks and rank names myself and then put it through AI for the final presentation.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Ugh, sorry, but I not feeling the love. Even the Commissionaires uses chevrons and crowns for their ranks. Also you have CIC, CI and CV's. CI and CV don't current wear any uniform.

 

[Kilted]

Ugh, sorry, but I not feeling the love. Even the Commissionaires uses chevrons and crowns for their ranks.

It dosen't have to be exactly that, it just needs to be different so it's not confused with chevrons, bars, and pips and crowns. It needs to work in all three services.

 

[Kilted]

Ok, I like this one better

 

[McG]

Can you point to me an example of a successful fitness, not a specific sport, coach that isnt in good shape? Or point to be a leader that improved fitness in an orga inaction while being in poor shape themselves? Ill accept an anecdote since we're now in the realm of opinion.

I can think of several individuals (of different backgrounds) who went on to be fitness trainers as retirement jobs; might still call many of them fit for their age, but none would be passing a fitness test designed for a 20 or 30 year old. I can also think of a former CO who packed on a lot of weight under MELs while simultaneously raising the overall fitness level of his unit by imposing more regimented PT structure across the sub-units. It seemingly can be done.

I agree the force test is inappropriate, id suggest the express test is a better indicator of overall fitness vs operational fitness.

And how do you set quantifiable metrics for a CIC fitness test? The Reg F had to dump the Express Test because it had no demonstrable connection to job tasks, and because the pass standard varied across age and gender. Most people advocating in this thread don't seem to care what a CIC can or cannot do so long as they have a fit aesthetic, but that is not defensible if challenged. Neither is arbitrary pass standards for either FORCE or Express. The best you might be able to argue is that CIC officers need to pass the Cadet Fitness Assessment (to demonstrate a pass to their cadets) and maybe an additional casualty carry (to get injured kids to safety when out in the woods).

Cadets bring some absolutely stellar kids to the CAF. CI's and CIC officers can continue to accomplish that while wearing the same uniform cadets are given.

CIC officers are CAF members. I understand you perceive them to be lesser members, and that you need them to look different from you so they are visibly marked as being an out-group. But get over your hurt feelings. The value of my service and professionalism is not diminished by the existence of the CIC within the CAF, and the same is true for you. Stripping CIC officers of CAF uniforms so you can feel better will immediately be noticed by the cadets themselves. Stuff CIC in cadet uniforms and you take away from that mission of building an affinity toward the CAF, because the Cadets no longer see CAF members leading them ... they'll just see adult cadets and a CAF that just went out of its way to distance itself from them.

Aside from a few PRes & RegF members who experience hurt feelings at the sight of the CIC, what problem are you trying to fix?