Do we need Cadets? Should they be military/uniformed? (split from Trump administration 2024-2028)

[YZT580]

Maybe they do, maybe not, but why does their having it hurt you so?

I am going to argue that the more we detach Cadets from the military, the more irrelevant it will become. Right now it is still unique in a myriad of choices that youth have to be involved with and that it is it's military roots and ethos that is the core of it's identity.

First thing I would do is start gathering data on who currently is in the CAF and has a history with Cadets.

At the same time make collecting that data point in the recruiting cycle in a searchable field.

Do a post CAF employment survey to ex-serving members who have left in the last decade, to find out if they had Cadet involvement.

Then I would survey the CIC themselves to find out what the military connection, uniform and commission means to them and how changing that might affect their continuation in the program. Also to find out what more the military could do to recruit more CIC's and to modernize the program.

Would it be too much to ask to include a further detail? Were your officers instrumental in your selecting your current trade, how, and were they fat?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Would it be too much to ask to include a further detail? Were your officers instrumental in your selecting your current trade, how, and were they fat?

While Cadets seek advice on the trades from us old members, I find most already have a good idea what they want to do.

 

[ueo]

Why not ?



I think this issue is we have created tiers in our ranks, commissioned an non. With a lower tiers given the same privileges and honors without the same level being expected of them.

I like the UK method, now that I have learned something about it. I think its a good compromise.



You're usually better than this. Its surprising to see you stoop to such a level.



They literally have to, every year.

Ummmm nope, many ways to skate this!

 

[markppcli]

Ummmm nope, many ways to skate this!

You means having Mel's?

 

[Furniture]

Ummmm nope, many ways to skate this!

Apart from MELs, anyone not doing their FORCE test is breaking the rules and should be on the way to RMs...

Now, some people's MELs expire after their FORCE test has expired, but they are obligated to get booked and do a test as soon as practicable. Otherwise, they too should be on the path to RMs.

 

[ueo]

Apart from MELs, anyone not doing their FORCE test is breaking the rules and should be on the way to RMs...

Now, some people's MELs expire after their FORCE test has expired, but they are obligated to get booked and do a test as soon as practicable. Otherwise, they too should be on the path to RMs.

Can't even "force" CIC folks to submit required paperwork. They fall back to the I'm an unpaid volunteer argument. no time etc.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Apart from MELs, anyone not doing their FORCE test is breaking the rules and should be on the way to RMs...

Now, some people's MELs expire after their FORCE test has expired, but they are obligated to get booked and do a test as soon as practicable. Otherwise, they too should be on the path to RMs.

They actually have 12 weeks after MELs expire to complete it.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Can't even "force" CIC folks to submit required paperwork. They fall back to the I'm an unpaid volunteer argument. no time etc.

Is HQ going to pay for that time required to submit paperwork? Does that time come out of their pay allotment to run the program, which is not much.


Pay Days Breakdown

• • Standard Officers: Generally allocated 25 paid days annually for local unit training and administration.
  • Commanding Officers (CO): Allocated 33 to 35 paid days annually due to higher administrative burdens.
  • Additional Service: Extra training, courses, or summer employment at Cadet Training Centres (CTCs) are paid separately via additional Class A or Class B service contracts. [1, 2, 3]

According to Reddit, “CIC officers, as part of the PRes sub-component COATS, typically receive pay for 25 days of Class A work annually at a local unit.”

 

[Colin Parkinson]

One thing I will say is that the initial comments by the weasel SecDef has led to a lot of free advertising for the Cadet program, in the news and social media. It will be interesting if we see a boost in numbers from it?

 

[Kilted]

By your logic then, two other sub-components of the Reserves (plus those members of COATS who are not of the CIC occupation) should also not be CAF members - the Supplementary Reserve and the Canadian Rangers. "Universality of service" does not apply to both of those sub-components. However, since universality of service is not about "being ordered to ones death", but about the being one of the exceptions in the Canadian Human Rights Act that permits the CAF to discriminate against those who can't physically or mentally perform functions required of them, it should be a moot argument.

As for CIC "being ordered to their death", they are subject to the same liability to be placed on "active service" or to perform lawful military duty within the terms of their enrolment, the same as any other member of the CAF. Would it happen? Unlikely, however those CIC officers with the Cadets when we had Canadian communities at Lahr and Baden were considered on "active service" just like any other reservist serving overseas. Did it matter to them, not really, except when they made use of their "active service" status to access medical services and did not have to have PSHCP or other insurance coverage.

The Supp Res are not current members of the CAF. The Canadian Rangers

Concurrently in the UK

More under-18s in Armed Forces: Government eyes second Army college for teens

Defence sources confirmed that plans are still at an early scoping phase – but are being actively considered

www.forcesnews.com

Fewer Cadets and mor Junior Soldiers?

There could be some arguments to end the Cadet program at 16 to encourage more former cadets to join. Essitianlly create a natural transisition. For a lot of them this could mean they would be BMQ and trades qualified before university, which would make the time commitment more reasonable.

I get that this would make the program more dependent on the adult leadership, but this could create a culture shift in the cadets that could lead to more cadets join the CAF or create a bit more of an unofficial strong suggestion.

 

[dapaterson]

Supp Res are members of the CAF. Full stop.

Which has numerous implications, including the act governing inventions by PA employees, the RCMP and the CAF.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/military-veteran-government-intellectual-property-1.3475301

 

[RangerRay]

Supp Res are members of the CAF. Full stop.

Which has numerous implications, including the act governing inventions by PA employees, the RCMP and the CAF.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/military-veteran-government-intellectual-property-1.3475301

Now I’m glad I didn’t get that million dollar idea during the decade I was on the Supp List…

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Supp Res are members of the CAF. Full stop.

Which has numerous implications, including the act governing inventions by PA employees, the RCMP and the CAF.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/military-veteran-government-intellectual-property-1.3475301

Yes. That one has always been a big headache for reservists. You are serving in the primary reserve, but your full time job is in research for a pharmaceutical company. So long as it's primary reserve service, you are OK because, when not serving on class A, B or C (i.e. when you are NOT doing reserve service), you are not subject to the NDA and are a simple civilian and all you develop for your employer has IP disposed of based on that employment contract.

But you terminate your PRes service and elect to be put on the SuppList and suddenly, because of that decision, nobody really knows what happens to any IP you wish to register in your name or in the name of your employers.

I have seen employers knowledgeable of that decision do two things: Some will say, when you decide to quit the reserve force, you quit period - no supp res for you - while others will say, screw this, if you develop something for us they will never find out anyway and if they do, they wont want the negative publicity of being seen as stealing IP they have nothing to do with from a private company.

 

[dapaterson]

Yes. That one has always been a big headache for reservists. You are serving in the primary reserve, but your full time job is in research for a pharmaceutical company. So long as it's primary reserve service, you are OK because, when not serving on class A, B or C (i.e. when you are NOT doing reserve service), you are not subject to the NDA and are a simple civilian and all you develop for your employer has IP disposed of based on that employment contract.

But you terminate your PRes service and elect to be put on the SuppList and suddenly, because of that decision, nobody really knows what happens to any IP you wish to register in your name or in the name of your employers.

I have seen employers knowledgeable of that decision do two things: Some will say, when you decide to quit the reserve force, you quit period - no supp res for you - while others will say, screw this, if you develop something for us they will never find out anyway and if they do, they wont want the negative publicity of being seen as stealing IP they have nothing to do with from a private company.

You are incorrect. All reservists, regardless of class of service, are subject to the Act - this is not the NDA, it's the Public Servants Invention Act.

Public Servants Inventions Act

Federal laws of Canada

laws-lois.justice.gc.ca

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Seen. My bad. But the interpretation I have given has been the view of many employers I spoke with. I guess they figure what you do for them is not something that results from or is connected with his military service, which for most reservists is correct.

 

[dapaterson]

Seen. My bad. But the interpretation I have given has been the view of many employers I spoke with. I guess they figure what you do for them is not something that results from or is connected with his military service, which for most reservists is correct.

I suspect that the language of the act could be interpreted as only applying to inventions in which the individual holds an ownership stake. Para 13(2) suggests that.

 

[YZT580]

The Supp Res are not current members of the CAF. The Canadian Rangers

There could be some arguments to end the Cadet program at 16 to encourage more former cadets to join. Essitianlly create a natural transisition. For a lot of them this could mean they would be BMQ and trades qualified before university, which would make the time commitment more reasonable.

I get that this would make the program more dependent on the adult leadership, but this could create a culture shift in the cadets that could lead to more cadets join the CAF or create a bit more of an unofficial strong suggestion.

You would need Rhodes back again and they are giving it to the indigenous folks

 

[SeaKingTacco]

You would need Rhodes back again and they are giving it to the indigenous folks

Cecil Rhodes is making a come back?

It is Roads.

As in Royal Roads.

As in a place where ships park.

 

[YZT580]

Cecil Rhodes is making a come back?

It is Roads.

As in Royal Roads.

As in a place where ships park.

thanks and yes I was actually thinking it was named for Rhodes. Never looked at the spelling. Roads makes more sense considering it was the Navy equivalent of Kingston.

 

[Kilted]

You would need Rhodes back again and they are giving it to the indigenous folks

I was more referring to them joining the reserves. I don't expect cadets to drop out of high school to join the regular force. Either way, we do need to have a larger capacity for training regardless.